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Chester Nimitz vs Karl Dönitz

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Donitz vs Nimitz.jpg

Water. Around 71 percent of the world's surface is covered by it. So it would be no wonder that eventually humanity would design weaponry around it.What first came were humble wooden ships with sails to move them across and humble iron cannons for protection. This would evolve over the course of hudreds of years, until it became the basis for the battleships, cruisers, destroyers and submarines of the modern age.

Today I will be focusing on two prolific admirals who were on opposing sides of WWII but never met in battle. Chester Nimitz,the fleet admiral of the United States Navy, who faced superior forces throughout the Pacfic campaign and still defeated them with superior strategy.Karl Dönitz ,the Supreme Commander of the Kreigsmarine, who utilize wolf pack tactics with U-boats to strike fear into any ships entering his domain.

Who is DEADLIEST?!

Chester Nimitz

Chester William Nimitz, Sr. (February 24, 1885 – February 20, 1966) was a fleet Admiralof the United States Navy. He

320px-Fleet Admiral Chester W. Nimitz portrait.jpg
played a major role in the naval history of World War II as Commander in Chief U.S Pacific Fleet  and Commander in Chief, Pacficic Ocean Areas, commanding Allied air, land, and sea forces during World War II.

Nimitz was the leading US Navy authority on submarines. Qualified in submarinesduring his early years, he later oversaw the conversion of these vessels' propulsion from gasoline to diesel, and then later was key in acquiring approval to build the world's first nuclear-powered submarine,USS Nautlius, whose propulsion system later completely superseded diesel-powered submarines in the US. He also, beginning in 1917, was the Navy's leading developer of underway replenishment techniques, the tool which during the Pacific war would allow the US fleet to operate away from port almost indefinitely. The chief of the Navy's Bureau of Navigation n 1939, Nimitz served as Chief of Naval Operations from 1945 until 1947. He was the United States' last surviving officer who served in the rank of fleet admiral.

Karl Dönitz

Karl Dönitz ( 16 September 1891 – 24 December 1980) was a German  admiral who played a major role in the naval

Bundesarchiv Bild 146-1976-127-06A, Karl Dönitz - crop.jpg
history of World War II Dönitz briefly succeeded Adolf as the head of state of Nazi Germany.

He began his career in the Imperial German Navy before World War I In 1918, he was commanding UB-68 when she was sunk by British forces. Dönitz was taken prisoner. While in a prisoner of war camp, he formulated what he later called Rudeltaktik  ("pack tactic", commonly called "wolfpack"). At the start of World War II, he was the senior submarine officer in the Kreigsmarine  In January 1943, Dönitz achieved the rank of Großadmiral (grand admiral) and replaced Grand Admiral Erich Raeder as Commander-in-Chief of the Navy.

On 30 April 1945, after the death of Adolf Hitler and in accordance with Hitler's last will and testament Dönitz was named Hitler's successor as head of state, with the title of President of Germany and Supreme Commander of the Armed Forces. On 7 May 1945, he ordered Alfred Jodl, Chief of Operations Staff of the OKW, to sign the German  instrument of surrender in Reims France. Dönitz remained as head of the Flensburg Government as it became known, until it was dissolved by the Allied powers on 23 May.

Despite his postwar claims, Dönitz was seen as supportive of Nazism during the war, and he is known to have made a number of anti-Semitic statements. Following the war, Dönitz was indicted as a major war criminal at the Nuremburg Trials  on three counts: (1) conspiracy to commit crimes against peace war crimes, and crimes against humanity; (2) planning, initiating, and waging wars of aggression; and (3) crimes against the laws of war. He was found not guilty on count (1) of the indictment, but guilty on counts (2) and (3). He was sentenced to ten years' imprisonment; after his release, he lived in a village near Hamburg until his death in 1980. 

Ships

Karl Dönitz and the Kreigsmarine

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/f/fe/Bundesarchiv_Bild_193-04-1-26%2C_Schlachtschiff_Bismarck.jpg/220px-Bundesarchiv_Bild_193-04-1-26%2C_Schlachtschiff_Bismarck.jpg Bismarck class battleship The Bismarck class was a pair of fast battleships built for Nazi Germany's Kriegsmarine shortly before the outbreak of World War II. Bismarck was laid down in July 1936 and completed in September 1940, while her sister Tirpitz's keel was laid in October 1936 and work finished in February 1941. The ships were ordered in response to the French Richelieu-class battleships and they were designed with the traditional role of engaging enemy battleships in home waters in mind, though the German naval command envisioned employing the ships as long-range commerce raiders against British shipping in the Atlantic Ocean. As such, their design represented strategic confusion that dominated German naval construction in the 1930s. Specifications: Speed:35 mph Range: 10,210 mi Armament: 8 × 38 cm (15 in) SK C/34 (4 × 2) 12 × 15 cm (5.9 in) SK C/28 (6 × 2) 16 × 10.5 cm (4.1 in) SK C/33 (8 × 2) 16 × 3.7 cm (1.5 in) SK C/30 (8 × 2) 20 × 2 cm (0.79 in) FlaK 30 (20 × 1) (up to 4 planes could be held on these battleships, but for the purposes of this battle none will be on it)

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/c/c5/Bundesarchiv_DVM_10_Bild-23-63-35%2C_Leichter_Kreuzer_der_%22K-Klasse%22.jpg/220px-Bundesarchiv_DVM_10_Bild-23-63-35%2C_Leichter_Kreuzer_der_%22K-Klasse%22.jpg The Königsberg class cruiser sometimes referred to as the K class, was a class of light cruisers of the German Reichsmarine and Kriegsmarine. The class comprised three ships named after German cities: Königsberg, Karlsruhe, and Köln, all built between 1926 and 1930. These ships were the first of the Reichsmarine with a modern cruiser design; their predecessor, Emden, was based on World War I-era designs. They were armed with a main battery of nine 15 cm (5.9 in) guns and with twelve 50 cm (20 in) torpedo tubes. Specifications: Speed:37 mph Range:5,700 nmi Armament: 9 × 15 cm SK C/25 guns 2 × 8.8 cm SK L/45 anti-aircraft guns 12 × 50 cm torpedoes 120 mines

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/1/17/German_destroyer_Z39_underway_off_Boston_on_12_September_1945.jpg/196px-German_destroyer_Z39_underway_off_Boston_on_12_September_1945.jpg The Type 1936A destroyers, also known as the Z23 class, were a group of fifteen destroyers built for the Nazi Germany's Kriegsmarine from 1938 to 1943. They were known to the Allies as the Narvik class. In common with other German destroyers launched after the start of World War II, the Narviks were unnamed, known only by their hull numbers - Z23 to Z39. Specifications: Speed: 41 mph Range: 3,000 mi Armament: 4 × single or 1 × twin, 3 × single 15 cm (5.9 in) guns 2 × twin 3.7 cm (1.5 in) AA guns 5–10 × 2 cm (0.79 in) AA guns 2 × quadruple 53.3 cm (21 in) torpedo tubes 4 × depth charge throwers 60 × mines

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The Type VII U-boat was based on earlier German submarine designs going back to the World War I Type UB III and especially the cancelled Type UG. The type UG was designed through the Dutch dummy company Ingenieurskantoor voor Scheepsbouw Den Haag (I.v.S) to circumvent the limitations of the Treaty of Versailles, and was built by shipyards around the world. The Finnish Vetehinen class and Spanish Type E-1 also provided some of the basis for the Type VII design. These designs led to the Type VII along with Type I, the latter being built in AG Weser shipyard in Bremen, Germany. The production of Type I was cut down only after two boats; the reasons for this are not certain. The design of the Type I was further used in the development of the Type VII and Type IX. Type VII submarines were the most widely used U-boats of the war and were the most produced submarine class in history, with 703 built. The type had several modifications. The Type VII was the most numerous U-boat type to be involved in the Battle of the Atlantic. Specifications: Speed: 20.4 mph surfaced 8.7 mph submerged Range:92 mi submerged, 9.800 mi surfaced Maximum Depth: 230-295m Armament: 5 × 53.3 cm (21 in) torpedo tubes (4 bow, 1 stern)[1] 14 × torpedoes or 26 TMA or 39 TMB mines 1 × 8.8 cm SK C/35 naval gun with 220 rounds


Chester Nimitz and the United States Pacific Fleet

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/2/20/USS_Colorado_%28BB-45%29_New_York_1932.jpg/183px-USS_Colorado_%28BB-45%29_New_York_1932.jpg The Colorado-class battleships were a group of four battleships built by the United States Navy after World War I. However, only three of the ships were completed: Colorado, Maryland, and West Virginia. The fourth, Washington, was over 75% completed when she was canceled under the terms of the Washington Naval Treaty in 1922. As such, the Colorado-class ships were the last and most powerful battleships built by the US Navy until the North Carolina class entered service on the eve of World War II. Specifications: Speed: 24 mph Range:9,200 mi Armament: 8 × 16 inches (406 mm)/45 caliber Mark 1 guns (4 × 2) 12 or 14 × 5 inches (127 mm)/51 caliber guns 2 × 21 inches (533 mm) torpedo tubes

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/3/3d/USS_Northampton_%28CA-26%29_at_Brisbane_on_5_August_1941_%28NH_94596%29.jpg/193px-USS_Northampton_%28CA-26%29_at_Brisbane_on_5_August_1941_%28NH_94596%29.jpg The Northampton-class cruisers were a group of six heavy cruisers built for the United States Navy, and commissioned between 1928 and 1931. The Northamptons saw much action in World War II. Three (Northampton, Chicago, and Houston) were lost during the war. The other three were decommissioned soon after the end of the war, and scrapped in 1959–1961. Specifications: Speed: 37.4 mph Range: 12,000 mi; Armament: 9 × 8 in/55 caliber guns (3×triple turrets) 8 × 5 in/25 caliber guns[1] 2 × 3-pounder 47 mm (1.9 in) saluting guns 24 × 40 mm Bofors guns (4×quadruple turrets) 28 × 20 mm Oerlikon cannons 6 × 21-inch torpedo tubes

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/0/07/USS_Allen_M._Sumner_%28DD-692%29_underway_in_the_Atlantic_Ocean_on_26_March_1944_%28NH_86272%29.jpg/192px-USS_Allen_M._Sumner_%28DD-692%29_underway_in_the_Atlantic_Ocean_on_26_March_1944_%28NH_86272%29.jpg The Allen M. Sumner class was a group of 58 destroyers built by the United States during World War II. Another twelve ships were completed as destroyer minelayers. Often referred to as simply the Sumner class, this class was characterized by their twin 5-inch/38 caliber gun mounts, dual rudders, additional anti-aircraft weapons, and many other advancements over the previous Fletcher class. The Allen M. Sumner design was extended 14 feet (4.3 m) amidships to become the Gearing class, which was produced in larger numbers. Specifications: Speed: 39 mph Range: 6,900 mi Armament: 6 × 5 in/38 cal guns (127 mm) (in 3 × 2 Mk 38 DP mounts) 12 × 40 mm Bofors AA guns (2 × 4 & 2 × 2) 11 × 20 mm Oerlikon cannons 2 × Depth charge racks 6 × K-gun depth charge throwers 10 × 21 in (533 mm) torpedo tubes

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/d/d5/USS_Balao_SS-285.jpg/183px-USS_Balao_SS-285.jpg The Balao class was a successful design of United States Navy submarine used during World War II, and with 120 units completed, the largest class of submarines in the United States Navy. An improvement on the earlier Gato class, the boats had slight internal differences. The most significant improvement was the use of thicker, higher yield strength steel in the pressure hull skins and frames, which increased their test depth to 400 feet (120 m). Tang actually achieved a depth of 612 ft (187 m) during a test dive, and exceeded that test depth when taking on water in the forward torpedo room while evading a destroyer. Specifications: Speed: 23.6 MPH Range:11,000 nautical miles (20,000 km) surfaced Maximum Depth: 120 m Armament: 10 × 21-inch (533 mm) torpedo tubes 6 forward, 4 aft 24 torpedoes 1 × 5-inch (127 mm) / 25 caliber deck gun Bofors 40 mm and Oerlikon 20 mm cannon

X-factors:

Nimitz: Nimitz originally applied to West Point to become an Army officer but no appointments were available. He then went to the United States Naval Academy and trained there from 1901 until he graudated in 1905, 7th out of 114. He also had limited study at the Naval War College in 1922. Dönitz: Dönitz would've likely received standard Imperial German Naval training in his earlier career, and some form of officer training after being commissioned as a Leutnant. No other major training is evident throughout his career, due to him being constantly active throughout the Interwar period.

Nimitz has much in the way of naval experience, boasting almost 40 years of commanding and being assigned to various ships. For two years he was a warrant officer at sea, and then went on to serve/command on the Panay, Decatur, Denver, USS Ranger and other various ships all within the span of around 6 years. Throughout WW1, Nimitz was on a refueling ship when the US declared war in 1917. For most of the Interwar period, Nimitz served as chief of staff, and served out mostly administrative duties, with limited command of Submarine Division 20. Then in WW2 Nimitz was appointed as the Commander in Chief of the Pacific Fleet. He oversaw many of the campaigns and battles in the Pacific including: Midway, Coral sea, the Guadalcanal Campaign, and the Solomon Island Campaign, just to name a few. Similarly to Nimitz,Dönitz has over 30 years of experience in many facets of Germany's navy. He enlisted in the Navy in 1910, and became an commissioned officer in 1913. He served on the SMS Breslau, was a commander of multiple submarines throughout WW1. After the war he was a POW for about 2 years before coming back in the Weimar Republic's naval arm. He commanded multiple torpedo boats throughout the 20's. Dönitz then in the early 30's commanded the Emden, a ship designed to train cadets. After this he became the leader of the U-boat section of the Kriegsmarine, and led them through the Battle of the Atlantic and in 1943, he replaced Erich Raeder as the Supreme commander of the Kriegsmarine, which he retained through the rest of the war.

Nimitz, like Dönitz was quite qualified with submarines, but wasn't one to entirely focus upon this strategy. As shown with battles like Midway and Coral Sea, he was very adept at defensive strategy, and relied heavily upon intelligence and ambushing the enemy, as Nimitz would frequently be unable to go for a direct approach. Dönitz was a major proponent of what would become known as the Rudeltaktik or Wolfpack tactic.Dönitz would organize a large group of U-boats and organize them in a coordinated line along likely convoy routes and strike in a mass-attack.

Throughout the Pacific theater, the United States had an abundance of ships due to the mass industrialization of the United States. The Pacific fleet in particular had multiple divisions of destroyers, battleships and cruisers ready to mobilize very quickly.They were equipped with some of the most advanced weaponry and were well-armoured. Also being on one of the US's major fronts and being a major commander of the Naval forces there would afford Nimitz quite a bit of logistical power. The Kriegsmarine like the other facets of the German military, obviously suffered from lack of resources throughout the war,and this showed in the the lack of major battleships. However, the ships that they were able to produce, were well armed, fast and armored , due to Germany disregarding many naval treaties from WWI and continuing to produce ships secretly.


Voting/Situation

This is a 25 v 25 fleet battle in the West of the Baltic Sea. In this alternate history, Japan has surrended one year early, allowing the Navy to entirely focus upon the Western front. Nimitz is assigned to push through the Baltic and attack from the north. Dönitz is on a standard patrol with a small fleet, while Nimitz has done the same. Battle starts when they meet up, simple as that.

You all know what I need for voting but just in case:

Format 1: Detailed edge based vote with good grammar and that isn't just a couple of words or a sentence.

Format 2: At least a 7 sentence paragraph detailing why you believe a certain warrior will win.

Votes like: " U-boats aree awesomme Dönitz wins" or " SCCrew the Naazis, Nimitz wins" aren't gonna count for obvious reasons.

X-factors are not required in your vote but are appreciated.

I hold the final say as to whether a vote counts or not, guidelines not withstanding.Voting will end when I am satisfied the the quality and quantity of votes.

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