This is a battle between two highly skilled Midieval warriors who both utilized the method of ambush and stealth but in very different ways. One, a group of Germanic Warriors who ambushed and raided Roman camps, who's shields were so effective even the Romans adopted them. The other a group of highly trained killers who assassinated important political figures (including kings) in broad daylight and successfully alarmed Saladin not to invade the relms of their sect. In a battle between two great stealth fighters trained from birth, only one will survive, only one will taste victory, only one will be The Deadliest Warrior!
Germanic Ghost Warrior[]
Germanic Ghost Warriors were famous for night raids on Roman armies and camps, they got there name as "Ghosts" because there painted bodies and weapons black, so there were virtually invisible. Generally speaking they weren't fighting in open battles but function as gurilla fighters disrupting the enemy movments in an area. There were reportedly extremely capable with throw projectiles like Darts and Even Stones, and Roman even reported the Germanic Warriors could Throw a dart or spear as far as a bow could shot and arrow, although there is a reasonable explanation for this, small strands of leather or rope can be used like a small atlatl, allowing for darts to be thrown farther. Germaic Warriors were, as a general rule excellent spear fighters. Unlike other warriors, such as the Greeks, who generally used spears in formation fighting, The warriors of Germania used spears is single combat. Rather than straight foreword thrusting, the Germans used large swing circular motions, spinning them around there head, while slowly letting the spear slide further down there hand. This gives them the advantage of catching the enemy off guard by allowing the spear to strike further out than than they originally thought. In addition to there spear German warriors carried large oak shields to protect there body. While an effective companion with there spear, it works well with the Germanic short sword, which was basically a slightly larger version of the seax. This sword had a thick back allowing for a sturdier blade, bit also a very fine point, allow for stabs into armor gaps. Because of the blade short length when used the Germanic shield. Their shields were so effective that even the Romans tried to copy their shields. Germanic Warriors were trained at the youngest possible age, similar to Spartans, Samurai, and other warrior cultures. Their clubs were hardened in such away that they could not be cut in half, not at all.
| Shield | Germanic Shield |
| Close Range | Fire Hardened Club |
| Mid Range | Germanic Sword |
| Long Range | Germanic Spear |
Hashashin[]
Hashasins were a group of Arabic assassins who played a large role in the Crusades. They are famous for their military tactics. Assassinating important political figures, cut off the head and kill the body. They would often assert themselves in the town or region of their targets, and over time stealthily move themselves into strategic positions. They would assassinate their target in broad daylight generally infront of public crowds for intimidation purposes. They went in with no plans of escape, often giving their lives to kill their target, they even assassinated kings. The writings of Marco Polo depict the Hashasins as trained killers responsible for systematic elimination of opposing figures. Hashashins were fanatically loyal to their leader, carrying out his every order with out the single thought of questioning him or hesitation. They were often born into the order and trained from an extremely young age in the arts of combat, disguises, horseback riding, and code of conduct. They didn't always assassinate their targets, sometimes leaving a threatening note saying to follow their demands or be killed. The Hashashins reputation was so strong that these threats would often be taken seriously. An example of this is Saladin who barely managed to survive two assassination attempts on him from the Hashashins who made an alliance with them in order to avoid more assassination attempts. While the first two attempts did not kill him, they put him into an extreme state of paranioa. During the night in Saladin's conquest of Masyaf he awoke to find a figure leaving his tent and left a threatening note demanding he pulled out of Masyaf or else be killed. Saladin then pulled out his forces and later made an alliance. While Hashashins did not generally carry out upfront combat, it should be noted they fought upfront, an example of this would be in the conquest of Masyaf. Plus, why would've they used shields if they never did? The Hashashins successfully assassinated the King of Jerusalem, and ambushed and killed his guards who were armored Knights. They were highly proficient with swords, daggers, axes, throwing knives, use of shields, bow&arrows, and various other weapons and tools.
| Shield | Hashashin Shield |
| Close Range | Poisoned Khanjar |
| Mid Range | Scimitar |
|
Long Range |
5 Throwing Knives |
X-factors[]
Germanic Ghost Warrior/Hashashin
Training/90/90
Both warrios here are extremely well trained. Both trained from birth in combat. It could be easily argued that Germanic Ghost Warriors were trained to fight upfront while Hashashins were all about the assassination. But Hashashins did fight in upfront combat sometimes. Such as in the conquest of Masyaf, why would they use shields if they never fought upfront?
Tactics/90/70
Tactics used by Hashashins were extremely effective, but in a one on one fight, or a squad on squad fight, what the hell is assassinating political and religious opponents gonna do other then intimidate the enemy? In this fight neither warrior will have knowledge of the other at all. 2,500 of these fights will take place in Masyaf in the day time, one on one. The other 2,500 in the forests of Germaniaa, squad on squad, under the cover of night. In day time one on one the Germanic tactics won't be very effective, at night 5 on 5 the German's tactics will dominate the Hashashins. Easily ambushing them and quickly disposing of them. However, Hashashin's methods of assassination often involved ambush. They often killed their target's guards and their target's guards were often armored KNIGHTS. However the Germanic's practiced and executed this day in and day out and did it where they really had to pull of some incredible ambushes, raiding camps of like 40 Romans with just 15 people. Hashashins, one maybe two Hashashins came out of know where killed a few guards, killed the target and that was it.
Creativity/Resilience/85/90
Hashashins never went into their target's city with weapons. They went into the city and picked up whatever weapon they could find. Often a Dagger in which they would tip with poison. Hashashins picked up on anything they could find, probably included improvised weaponry. German'c generally went into combat with weapons, and I doubt were ever put into a position where they had to improvise. Regardless with the kind of training they had they would be able to improvise if they needed.
Organization/90/96
Both groups were clearly highly organized. It took much organization and patience to plan those raids on Roman Camps and those assassinations. Hashashins would wait months, even years before reaching their target. However, while it took organization to pull off the attacks Germanic Warrios made, it took much more organization to plan those assassinations. Islamic Historian Bernard Lewis cites the roll of honor at Alamut containing the names of fifty well-performed assassinations of known political enemies during the thirty-five years reign of Hassan.
Ruthless/90/99
Both groups were highly ruthless. Hashashins would give their lives to assassinate their target, they would assassinate them with no plans of escape just to kill the target. They were fanatically loyal to their Grandmaster, carrying out his every order without question or hesitation. Germanic Warriors cut down Roman camps killing everyone inside, but that's nothing like getting to know your target and then killing him infront of many people with no plans of escape knowing you'll day. Nor were they as fanatically loyal to their superiors as the Hashashins were.
Arguments[]
Germanic Ghost Warrior Argument: (By SWG)[]
While this fight would be a fairly close battle, I ultimatly think the Ghost Warrior would win in the end. This is for a number of reason. First and Formost is his position as a raider as opposed to Assassin. Assassin's no matter how bold there assassination attempts are, as a generaly rule, meant to kill a target with stealth, generally avoiding direct conflict is at all possible. Raiding on the other hand pretty much means you probably going to have to do some direct fighting, and would fight fully armed Roman soldiers, but in the case of the Ghost Warrior his raids were happening at night and using camouflage to hit hard and fast, then move away then strike again, but they are fighting enemies who are ready to fight. He's used to fighting in direct combat, the Hashashin would not be a used to it.
Then there is the equipment, the Ghost Warrior is generally bringing equipment more suited to battle than assassination. The Long sword is more versatile than the Scimitar, a straight sword is more capable of preforming stabs and thrusts and additionally the straight blade allows for it to parry attacks of other weapons. The Spear vs the Throwing knives. Throwing knives aren't really effective killing tools, like the Shurikan, there light and even less likely to hit blade first than a shurikan. There good distraction tools, but the Spear is more effective, it always lands point first and if a formidable melee weapon. The Club vs the Dagger, is actually a fairly even comparison, the club is bigger and carries a lot of blunt for trauma, but the poison dagger can poison the opponent, and the dagger itself can be quiet a deadly weapon. Finally we come to the shields, the Hashashin's shield is small and is good for deflecting and parrying, but the Germanic shield is bigger and will render the throwing knives virtually useless, counter the slashing motions of the scimitar and is quiet a danger weapon in it's own right with the steel boss. The Hashashin shield smaller size means it's harder for the Hashashin to guard his legs, something the Ghost Warrior won't have to worry about do to the size of the shield.
So while these two are both formidable warriors, the Ghost warriors direct fighting style and experience and equipment will carry him to victory in a close fight.
Hashashin Argument: (By me because I seriously couldn't find anyone else to do it)[]
This will be a very close fight but in the end the Hashashin will take it for a variety of reasons. Let's start by comparing weapons.
Hashashin shield Vs Germanic shield. The Germanic shield is larger and can protect more of the body. The Hashashin shield isn't that much smaller....but it's still quite smaller but allows for more mobility. Overall the larger Germanic shield will take the edge for larger size.
Poisoned Khanjar Vs Club. The Poisoned Kanjar will take this. The club is designed in a way so it can't be cut in half. It can only kill if it hits the head, anywhere else is really just a broken bone. It can be easily blocked, and easily disarmed. The Khanjar is much more versital. It's designed in a way where it can give a very good stab or slash. It can easily block and counter the club. The Khanjar can also be thrown or used in a way where it's not for killing but for some other purpose. Another thing, if the Hashashin just stabs ot slashes the Germanic Warrior pretty much anywhere; the Germanic Warrior will die whether he kills the Hashashin or not. He won't get treated in time, and they didn't really have the treatment to treat poisons back then. Plus he'll get dizzy and fight bad.
Scimitar Vs Germanic Sword. Scimitar takes this easily. Now, it should be noted that the longer blade won't be much a thing. You see, the back of the blade of a Scimitar isn't sharp. Scimitar wielders would hold the blade to them putting their arms on the blade and get close for the kill. They would push in using it as a defense and then out of nowhere with the advantage of the curved blade strike at the opponent in a place where they weren't expecting it. It can giv great slashes and still a good thrust. Its curved blade can go under the Germanic's shield while the Hashashin blocks the Germanic's other weapon with his shield. It can easily cut the Germanic's spear right in half. Another thing, Germanic's aren't use to dealing with opponents with curved blades. No as a matter of fact, the Germanic's fought the Romans who used basically the swords the Germanic's used. Short, double edged, straight swords, good for stabbing, decent slashes, good for parrying, often used in combination with a shield etc. The Germanic Warrior will really be unfarmiliar with dealing with a curved blade like that. They'll be like "WTF how the hell do I defend against this thing". The Hashashins have actually dealt with straight swords quite a bit. Not the kind of straight swords the Germanic's used but the kind the Crusaders used. While there were quite some differences, it's not to hard to figure out how to defend against the Germanic's sword when you deal with Crusader swords.
Throwing Knives Vs Spear. Throwing Knives won't be very useful when the Germanic Warrior has his shield; he can easil block them. But the Germanic Warrior won't use his spear and shield at once. Germanic's didn't use the standard style of spear and shield. They generally wieled it with two hands, twirling it in the air and then all of the sudden striking. They used it in a slashing style more so then stabbing.The unique style of twirling it will confuse the Hashashin. Although he will probably just cut it in half with his Scimitar at a range. The Germanic Warrior will actually be at a disadvantage with his spear though. The Hashashin can take advantage of this by throwing his knives at the Germanic Warrior. Without his shield he's basically defenseless against them. Basically, the spear can be cut in half by the Scimitar; or the Hashashin can just throw his throwing knives and get him. So pitted against the spear throwing knives win. Although when not using the spear the throwing knives shall be useless. When using the spear they'll be highly effective. Throwing Knives beat the Spear for this factor. Also the fact that the Spear won't be very effective in combat against the Scimitar either.
I want to say that Hashashins did engage in upfront combat or else they wouldn't use a shield. On top of that, Germanic's didn't necessarily often go straight head to head. They always had the opponent dead before they even knew they were there. Put yourself in the shoes of a Roman. It's Sunday night, you aren't expecting an attack you're tired you can't wait for your shift to end. Then all of the sudden a bunch of ass holes in black come out of the bushes and start tearing up your guys. You're all like "WTF" you're looking around trying to see them but you can't see them, all you can see is your friends getting cut down. Now you're dealing with panic and sadness and anger of the loss of your friend and maybe commanding officer. Then next thing you know you've been stabbed in the neck. What I'm getting at is that most of the time the Germanic's opponents were dead before they even saw them. I mean, 2,500 of these fights will be at night, in the forests of Germania, squad on squad, so..........But the other 2,500 will be one on one in broad daylight in the town of Masyaf. I'm just saying that the Hashashins did engage in upfront combat and that the Germanic's weren't exactly mr. direct combat either.
Overall the Hashashin shall take this with better weapons, equal training, and the Germanic's being unfarmiliar with swords like the Scimitar.
Notes[]
*Votes with 4+ sentences that are all relevant and valid points will be counted as full. Anything under will not be counted at all.
*Votes for a tie count as a vote for both warrior.
*2,500 of these fights will be at night in the dark forests of Germania squad on quad. The other 2,500 in broad daylight one on one in the town of Masyaf.
*Arguments count as votes.
The Battle[]
So normally in a reality match up I try to at least give a reason as to why these two warriors are fighting. Unfortunately, the Germanic Ghost Warrior existed from the 6th century to the 9th century. Hashashin (as an actual order) 11th-13th centuries. (The last Hashashin is believed to have died out in the 1500's).
5 Germanics walk towards the Castle of Masyaf during the reign of The Man of the Mountains under the cover of night hoping to assassinate him.
Unknown to the Germanics, the Hashashins were well aware of this plot, and had made preparations As they walked up, they felt like they were being watched.
"Halt!" (translated from Germanic) said the Ghost leader as they walked in between a set of buildings on each side.
All of the Germanics knew exactly why he had said that. They looked around; tried to see their opponents that their gut told them they were there. And they knew exactly where they were hiding.........
Suddenly, 3 Hashashins came out of the buildings. Two on the left, 1 on the right.
At the same time two Hashashins jumped out of 20 foot windows.
Right as the Hashashin came out of the left house the Germanic second in command quickly stabbed him in the chest with his sword.
The Hashasin that jumped out of the right window jumped right down onto a Germanic charging at the other left Hashashin, landing on his back, grabbing his hair, and stabbing him in the neck with his Khanjar.
The Germanic who killed the first Hashashin quickly found himself falling to the ground with a Khanjar in his back from the other Hashashin who came from the lef.
Right as the other Hashashin (who jumped out a window) fell, aiming at a Germanic who was looking at him, the Germanic quickly held up his shield which the Hashashin landed on, he tried to get his hand behind the shield and stab him in the head, but the Germanic quickly threw the shield back. The Hashashin landed on his feet and the two began dualing with swords.
(That all happened over the period of like.....5 seconds) The Germanic put his shield infront of him and went charging at the Hashashin with his sword pulled in, ready to be thrusted out like apush knife!
The Hashashin went under the Germanic's shield with his sword as he got close, right as he did that the Germanic thrusted his sword at him.
The Hashashin blocked it with his shield.
Right at that moment, the Scimitar went into the Germanic's stomach, killing him.
The Hashashin retracted his sword and suddenly felt the impact of a spear go right into his brain.
That spear came from a Germanic who just killed the Hashashin he was dualing.
We are down to 3 on 3!
The Germanics regrouped with each other on the left side of the field.....
The Hashashins on the right.
Each side gave the other a angry stare in the eyes.
Both groups charged at each other!!!!
The Germanic leader twirled his spear in the air.
The Hashashin third in command, with a dagger closed in, he quickly threw it at the Germanic.
He quickly did a spin jump to the left, right as he landed the twirling spear hit the Hashashin in the head; knocking him right on the ground bleeding heavily, and unconscious.
The Germanic Warrior twirlded his spear in the air preparing to stab it down onto the Hashashin he had just about killed.
A Germanic thrusted his sword at a Hashashin, he quickly blocked it with his shield, and with his left hand, quickly grabbed two throwing knives and threw them at the Germanic about to kill his comrade.
The two knives hit him right in the side, he fell to the ground and began to bleed heavily.
2 on 2!
As he turned his head back, the Germanic pushed forward with his shield push hing back, then stabbed him in the head.
He turned to assist his comrade fighting the last Hashashin.
The Germanic fighting him (he doesn't have a shield) the Hashashin locked his sword on the inside of the Germanic's he then sweeped it down and cut off his armed wrist.
With swift precision, before the Germanic could even scream, he loped the Germanic's head right off.
It's now down to one on one!
The tension brewed between the two as they circuled each other about 10 feet apart.....Getting ready for their move....Trying to figure out what their opponent will do......
The Hashashin pushed himself forward, making a attempted stab at the Germanic's throat.
The Germanic blocked it with his club. The Hashashin quickly curved his blade around the Germanic's weapon; the Germanic ducked and came forward hitting the Hashashin square in the balls.
He hit him so hard it made it hard for him to stand up.
The Germanic stood up infront of him, he raised the club above his head and came right down on him.
At the last moment, the Hashashin blocked it with his arm. However, the club broke his arm.
The Germanic then dropped the club and grabbed his hair, he then dragged him over to a window and smashed his head right through it.
The Hashashin, with his other hand picked up a piece of glass and put it into a icepick grip then stabbed the Hashashin in the very left corner of the stomach, not going very far in or hitting any organs.
"AHH!!". Screamed the Germanic.
He then turned around and hit him square in the face, causing his head to turn.
He turned his head back, while he did that he grabbed the piece of glass and thrusted it right back at the Hashashin.
He jumped to the side, evading his attack.
As blood spilled out of the Germanic, he simply couldn't hold on anymore.
As he started to fail to stand, he threw the glass at the Hashashin, it impacted his upper left leg.
"AHH!!!!!!!". Screamed the Hashashin.
The Germanic tried totackle him, but right as he moved.....He fell to the ground from blood loss.
The Hashashin then walked away to let The Old Man of the Mountains know that his opponents had been dealt with.
Winner: Hashashin
Winning Argument's Opinion.[]
The Hashashin took this for a few reasons. For one, he had better weapons. The throwing knives made the spear useless since somebody using it could be easily taken out with throwing knives. The Scimitar could go under Germanic shieldsand the Germanics were not use to dealing with curved slashing weapons whereas the Hashashins were use to dealing with straight blades. Another thing, if the Hashashin were to scracth the Germanic with the dagger he would eventually die. They didn't really have the cures for poisons back then. They were also able to fair better (still suck) in the Germanic's enviornment then the Germanics were in theirs. Them taking organization, ruthless, and creativity was also a factor but nothing huge. Those are the reasons the Hashashin won.
___Me