Dutch Van Der Linde, the outlaw who resisted the taming of the Wild West
VS
The young traveler and skilled markswoman known only as "Kino"
WHO IS DEADLIEST?
Combatants[]
Dutch Van Der Linde[]
Dutch van der Linde was the leader of the infamous Dutch's Gang, which once operated in West Elizabeth. Notable gang members included John Marston, Abigail Marston, Bill Williamson, and Javier Escuella.
At the time, Dutch was an altruistic and idealistic rogue, believing the gang could make a difference in the world. He fashioned himself into a Robin Hood figure, taking money from those who had more than they could ever need, and giving it to those who had very little, and truly needed it. He saw himself as a symbol of the romanticized Wild West, and a humanitarian champion of the people, opposing government control, supporting individual liberty and punishing general human cruelty and selfishness. His romantic image and charisma inspired his gang to believe in his vision of a "Savage Utopia", and it was in the name of Dutch and his cause that they committed crimes such as murder and robbery.
As the years rolled by, though, Dutch slowly began to realize the futility of his cause. With new technology making it easier for the government to exert control over the people, liberty had given way to bureaucracy. The violence and greed of humanity had not stopped, and no one had been inspired by his example. His work had ultimately changed nothing. Worse still, the truth of his own hypocrisy crept deeper and deeper into Dutch's thoughts. He and his gang had attempted to change the world for the better, yet in doing so, they had become the worst humanity had to offer. His idealism turned into extreme anger, and Dutch gradually descended into madness, masking his pain with meaningless violence and an unfocused hatred of everything and everyone around him. In the end, Dutch himself caused the disillusionment of the other gang members.
Van der Linde had not been seen nor heard from in several years, and --despite claims of sightings-- was thought to have perished in a fire following a botched robbery in 1906. During one of the cutscenes in The Gates of El Presidio, it is hinted that Dutch is in Colombia and not likely to be seen ever again. This is false, however, and Dutch plays a central role in the remainder of the game.
Marston and Williamson may have competed for Dutch's favor as hinted at by Williamson's line, "Dutch always said you were an arrogant son of a bitch!"
When Bill Williamson is killed in Mexico, Edgar Ross declares John is not finished. He is told Dutch van der Linde is back in the West Elizabeth region and Marston is obligated to kill him. Together with a Native American named Nastas and Professor Harold MacDougal, John tries to hunt down Dutch. John kills a scout after a battle to reach Dutch's mountain hideout: Cochinay and picks up his binoculars, a vital tool in Red Dead Redemption. When looked through, John observes Dutch killing a police officer. He then looks through again and sees that Dutch has his pistol pointed at Marston. A shot is fired, but it hits the binoculars and knocks Marston out. Dutch recruits disenfranchised young Native Americans off of the local reservations for his new gang. John and a posse of U.S. Marshals stake out the bank and wait for a chance to kill Dutch. The mission goes south when the gang kills a man in the front entrance and fights off the posse for a few minutes. John corners Dutch in an upper room but he has taken a woman hostage and uses her as a human shield. Dutch escapes after shooting the girl in the head and throwing her body into Marston's arms. Next, Dutch surrounds the Blackwater Hotel while John and Professor MacDougal are inside. Shouting up at John, he announces that he plans on killing John and the Professor for "sport". However, John and MacDougal escape out of a window and across the rooftops before reaching a pair of waiting horses. John is then able to safely escort MacDougal to the train station at Manzanita Post.
In the final assault on his hideout with the U.S. Army, John and government agents wipe out his army. Together, he and Dutch battle with each other. Eventually, Marston gains the upper hand and chases Dutch to the edge of a cliff. Marston and Dutch exchange words, with Dutch explaining how he can't fight his nature so he can't change. He then tells John that they are a dying breed in a changing world before committing suicide by dropping backwards from the cliff. Agent Ross uses Marston's pistol to shoot the corpse, claiming it will look better in the report.
(Modified from Red Dead Wiki)
Kino[]
"Kino" is the name adopted by a girl born in a bizarre city state in which, after reaching age of twelve, children are taken to a hospital to undergo a procedure that will instantaneously physically and mentally mature them to adulthood, and also psychologically modify them into "perfect adults", being able to act happy with even a job they completely hate, and also extremely logical. Kino does not remember her original name, only that she had the name of a flower that, in her language, sounded similar to an insult, and was often bullied because of this. The girl that would become "Kino" met a traveler of the name she would later adopt, just days before she was to under go the operations. "Kino Sr." told her about the outside world, where people mature normally, and are not fated to an adult life working a menial job they hate on the inside. "Kino Sr.'s" spoke with the girl that would become "Kino" while he repaired an old motorcycle with some sort of sentient AI (apparently normal in this world), which he named "Hermes". Kino Sr.'s ideas gave the "Kino" the idea that she did not want to undergo the operation that would turn her into an adult. Kino's parents quickly figured out it was Kino Sr. who was about to leave on Hermes, that gave them the idea. This reveals another feature of adults in Kino's homeland: If their children refuse the operation, they have hesitations about murdering them, viewing them as failures. Kino's father tried to do just this, but Kino Sr. jumps in front of her, and he is stabbed to death instead. The locals are shocked, view his action as completely illogical- against any notion of self-preservation. Kino then gets on Hermes, and, for the first time realizing Kino Sr. was speaking literally when he said the machine was sentient (so maybe not such as common thing in this world). With the motorcycle literally instructing her in its own operation, Kino escapes the city state of her birth on Hermes, who mistakes her for Kino Sr., leading to the girl adopting the name "Kino" for the first time.
Some time later, Kino and Hermes are riding through a dark forest when they are attacked by a wolf, but its is shot by an old lady, who Kino would live with, and later come the refer as "Master" for her expert marksmanship. It was "Master" who taught Kino to shoot, and before she left on her journey to see the world as Kino Sr. had done, gave Kino her revolver, a weapon similar in appearance to Colt 1851, but differing in that its fires a .44 caliber round using a liquid propellant. Kino gets her semi-automatic .22, the "Ranger", in a city state she visits, a momento from a man who knew "Master". Kino leaves the city state when they order her to, claiming it to be one of their laws, however, in truth, it was to spare her from a pyroclastic flow from a nearby volcano, which the citizens of the city decided they would rather die in than leave their land.
Through her travels, Kino discovers her world is made up mostly of small city states, and has visited a number of countries with bizarre customs, traditions, and forms of government. Among these are a country which believes the world will end because it is written in a book of prophecy- which is actually a book of sorrowful poems written in another country, as well as saving the lives for people form a country of "traders" who were stranded in the snow, who later betray her and try to take her into slavery, a country that overthrew a corrupt monarch, only to take democracy to a horrific extreme- killing thousands in executions decided by majority vote, eventually reducing the population to one man, a country with advanced robotics technology, and a country where a corrupt king forces travelers to either fight in a gladiatorial arena or face slavery, among others. The technology of this world, while mostly appearing to be based on that of the early 20th century based on the firearms, is very anachronistic, with some countries possessing computers and even advanced, sentient robots. Laser sights also exist, Kino having one on her "Ranger" pistol, as do futuristic hover-vehicles, which seem to co-exist with wheeled and tracked vehicles, however aviation is in its infancy, with Kino witnessing the first successful flight on an aircraft.
Throughout her travels, Kino herself does not intentionally get involved with the affairs of the countries she visits, though she expresses disgust with the violent, oppressive government of a number of them (for instance, two countries that, instead of going to war, now settle affairs with contests of who can massacre the most unarmed civilians of a local tribe). Kino only really intervenes in country where she is forced to fight in a gladiatorial arena, and ends up assassinating the king of the country. While she generally has a calm, kind demeanor, and in the gladiatorial area, managed to force all of her opponents to surrender rather than killing them, Kino is quite capable of shooting to kill. Generally Kino uses lethal force on enemies that leave her with no other choice, and who she views as morally reprehensible, including a group of slave traders that try to take her captive and the aforementioned corrupt king. Kino is shown to be skilled with her pistols in a manner reminiscent of a gunslinger of a classic western, being able to draw her pistols extremely quickly, and fire with almost superhuman accuracy, at one point shooting down throwing knives with shots fired from her hip. Kino is also extremely agile, capable of making rapid movements, evading attacks with rolls and cartwheels. She also has surprising strength for a girl of her size, being capable of knocking an adult male out with a single pistol whip.
Weapons[]
Knives[]
Hunting Knife (Both)[]
The Hunting Knife is the knife that hunters use to kill and cut open dead animals. It can also be used as a Combat Knife though that is not the exact design. One common design is the Bowie knife, first made in the early 1800s and popularized by famous frontiersman Jim Bowie. The Bowie knife is a characterized by its length, typically over 12 inches, and its clip point.
Revolvers[]
Colt Single Action Army (Dutch)[]
The Colt Single Action Army revolver (also known as the Peacemaker) is a single-action revolver developed in the 1870's for U.S. military use. It saw extensive use in combat in the Plains Indians Wars (finding its way into the hands of the Native Americans themselves) and in the wars with Mexico. The weapon fired a .45 Colt round with a range of about 40 yards from a six-shot cylinder.
"The Cannon" (Kino)[]
"The Cannon" is a custom cap-and-ball revolver carried by Kino, similar in appearance to a Colt 1851 (right), but firing a .44 caliber round using a liquid propellant. The weapon has a six-round cylinder, and appears to have comparable range to the Colt Single Action Army based on use in the anime. The gun can fire a higher-powered round, capable of penetrating bulletproof glass.
119's Edge[]
Dutch's Colt Single Action Army, as it uses a cartridge feed system, meaning can be reloaded more quickly than "The Cannon's" cap and ball system.
Semi-Automatics[]
Borchardt C93 (Dutch)[]
The Borchardt C93 was the first semi automatic pistol to be made in any significant numbers. The weapon fired a 7.65mm round from an eight-round box magazine. While the weapon was accurate and could fire more quickly than a revolver, the weapon had a poor ergonomic design with its almost vertical grip. The Borchardt would later be improved upon by Georg Luger into the famous Luger pistol.
Colt Woodsman "The Ranger" (Kino)[]
Kino's other pistol is a customized .22 caliber Colt Woodsman Match Target (or a weapon from her universe that looks identical to the real life Colt Woodsman) called "The Ranger". The Colt Woodsman is a semi-automatic pistol with a ten-round magazine. Kino's "Ranger" is customized with a silencer and a laser sight.
119's Edge[]
Kino's Colt Woodsman "Ranger" for is larger magazine, silencer, and laser sight, more than making up for its smaller round.
Special Weapons[]
Double Barreled Shotgun (Dutch)[]
The Double-Barreled Shotgun is, as the name suggest, a shotgun with two parallel barrels, in either "side by side" (SS) or "over and under" (OU) configuration. In general OU configuration shotguns are more accurate, as the sight is place directly in front of both barrels. While the earliest models, used starting in about the mid-19th century were muzzle loaders, most modern double barreled shotguns are break action, with barrels breaking at the back. Short double barreled shotguns were often used in the days of "Wild West" by the man sitting next to the driver of a stagecoach, whose duty it was to defend the coach from attackers, the root of term "riding shotgun". Dutch's shotgun is a breech-loading side by side double barrel shotgun.
Knife Pistol (Kino)[]
Kino uses a knife with three .22 caliber pistol barrels and a laser sight in the grip as a secondary weapon to her two pistols. Kino uses it to surprise attack an enemy who thought they had disarmed her. The weapon fires .22 caliber rounds.
119's Edge[]
While the knife pistol has the element of surprise, both in the concealed gun, and as the laser sight might be something of a shock to someone like Dutch, who would have never seen one before, in my opinion, the greater practicality of the double barreled shotgun wins the day.
Shotguns[]
Browning Auto 5 (Dutch)[]
The Browning Automatic 5, most often Auto-5 or simply A-5, is a recoil-operated semi-automatic shotgun designed by John Browning. It was the first successful semi-automatic shotgun design, and remained in production until 1998. The name of the shotgun designates that it is an autoloader with a capacity of five shots, four in the magazine and one in the chamber. For the purposes of this match, it will be 12 gauge.
Winchester Model 1897 (Kino)[]
The Winchester Model 1897, also known as the Model 97, M97, or Trench Gun, was a pump-action 12 gauge shotgun with an external hammer and 5-round tube magazine manufactured by the Winchester Repeating Arms Company.
119's Edge[]
Dutch's Browning Auto 5 for its superior rate of fire.
Rifles[]
Evans Repeater (Dutch)[]
The Evans Repeating Rifle was a .44 caliber repeating rifle known for its large magazine capacity- up to 34 rounds. The weapon used a lever action system similar to the Spencer Repeating Rifle to operate the large-capacity screw magazine.
Semi-Automatic Rifle (Kino)[]
In the original novel, Kino uses a fictional semi-automatic rifle similar in appearance to a Japanese Arisaka rifle, but with a semi-automatic, rather than bolt-action design. For the purposes of this match, the weapon will fire a 7.7mm round from a five-round stripper clip like a real-life Arisaka.
119's Edge[]
Dutch's Evan's repeater has a much large magazine, but Kino's semi-auto takes the edge for rate of fire and range. For these advantages, I give this one to Kino's Semi-Automatic Rifle.
Machine Guns[]
Maxim Gun[]
The Maxim Gun was the world first true fully automatic machine gun, designed in 1884 by Hiram Maxim. The variants of the gun were produced by numerous European countries and used to crush native forces in the conquest of Africa. The weapons were, however, also used by Ethiopians, who successfully fought back against colonialism with captured or purchased modern weapons, including Maxims. The various Maxim designs, such as the British Vickers and German Spandau went on to see service in World War I, where they were responsible for millions of deaths in the trenches of the Western Front. Maxim-style weapons saw limited use in WWII, and were phased out entirely by the 1950s. For the purposes of this match, Dutch's Maxim will fire .30-06 rounds at a rate for fire of 500 rpm and a 250-round belt.
MG-42 (Kino)[]
The MG 42 (shortened from German: Maschinengewehr 42, or "machine gun 42") is a 7.9mm general purpose machine gun that was developed in Nazi Germany and entered service with the Wehrmacht in 1942. It supplemented, and, in some instances, replaced the MG 34 general-purpose machine gun in all branches of the German Armed Forces, though both weapons were manufactured and used until the end of the war. The MG-42 fires a 7.92mm round at a rate of fire of 1200 rounds per minute, and for the purposes of this match, be fed with a 250-round belt.
119's Edge[]
Kino's MG-42 for its greater portability and much higher rate of fire.
X-Factors[]
| Dutch Van Der Linde | X-Factor | Kino |
|---|---|---|
| 53 | Training | 65 |
| 90 | Combat Experience | 83 |
| 95 | Marksmanship | 98 |
| 80 | Physical Strength | 78 |
| 80 | Agility | 93 |
| 94 | Killer Instinct | 78 |
| 67 | Weapons | 73 |
Explanations[]
Neither have any formal military training, however, Kino was trained by a master markswoman, whereas Dutch's training probably only consists of the occasional target practice. As for combat experience, both have been in a number of fights during their respective lives, Kino has only been adventuring for about two years, so her combat experience is shorter, but she has gotten into a number of gunfights in that time. Still Dutch takes experience. As for marksmanship, both are extremely good shots, however I give Kino as slight edge, as she can shoot six thrown knives out of air with as many shots, while firing from the hip! As for physical strength, Kino can pistol whip an adult male unconscious, in spite of being a girl of about 14, however, while she comes close, I still gave the actual adult male a slight edge in strength, Edge: Dutch. As for agility, Kino takes this, she can easily perform rolls and cartwheels to quickly get out of the line of fire. Dutch takes killer instinct for his criminal career, while Kino will only kill in self defense, and will often use non-lethal force to subdue a target instead of killing them.
Battle[]
Kino drove north on her motorcycle, Hermes, along a dirt road through a dense forest. She had never heard of the country she was in before- The United States of America. In fact, it wasn't on her map. Indeed, the world maps in this country suggested she had somehow ended up in a different world altogether.
Kino did not mind so much, for the past two years, she lived to travel, to explore. The fact that she might well be on another planet entirely might have unnerved some people, but it cause Kino only excitement. A whole new world to explore. This country she was in now, was unlike anything like the others she had visited. Rather than a small city state like the countries Kino was used to, The United States was a vast nation that took up about a third of an entire continent, having been apparently gradually grown to it's current size due to a belief that it was their "Manifest Destiny" to expand across the continent.
This country seemed generally technologically comparable to her own world, however, they had never seen any sort of artificial intelligence, and were in for quite a shock when Hermes spoke for the first time- they were shocked that a machine could be sentient.
About 100 meters down the road, Kino spotted six men armed with Browning Auto 5 shotguns and Colt revolvers guarding a gate in a wooden wall, beyond which were a number of shacks and, in the center, a tower along the back of a cliff.
Suddenly, the men opened fire. Kino drew her custom .44 revolver, "The Cannon", and fired off all six shots in rapid succession. All six of the men fell to the ground, dead. Suddenly, a machine gun in the tower opened up. Kino turned, driving Hermes into the woods, using the trees a cover.
Kino took an MG-42 she had slung over the back of Hermes, and left, the sentient vehicle saying, "Kino, be careful".
"Don't you worry", Kino replied, "I'll take care of this"
Kino spotted the source of the gunfire, a man in orange standing at the command of a mounted Maxim gun. Kino raised her MG-42 and fired it from the hip, firing off a hail of bullets, not particularly accurate, but causing such a volume of fire that it literally broke through one of the supports of the makeshift "tower".
Dutch Van Der Linde rolled out of the way, surprised that their could be a weapon with a higher rate of fire than his Maxim. Dutch then unslung his Evans repeater from his back and took cover behind a rock.
Kino's MG-42 ran out of ammunition, and and Dutch got up and fired his Evans twice. The bullets whizzed past Kino. Kino raised her semi-automatic rifle and fired three shots, causing Dutch to roll out from cover and run for it, into a mine shafted blasted into the other side of the ledge.
Kino advanced, only to have side grazed when a bullet from Dutch's repeater narrowly missed her. Kino took cover behind a stack of crates and fired off two more shots with her rifle, driving him into the mine.
Kino jumped over the crates and ran forward, up the wooden ramp leading up the ledge. Suddenly, she heard a male voice yell "Put down the gun and I might let ya live", the man said.
Kino saw Dutch aiming straight for her with his Borchardt pistol. Kino put down her rifle.
"And the pistol too", Dutch said.
Kino obeyed and placed the "Ranger" on the ground. Dutch then said, "Now put down yer knife".
Kino drew out her knife, however, instead of putting it on the ground, she pointed it towards Dutch and pressed a button on the side. Dutch was blinded by a red light as the laser sight- though Dutch had no idea what it was- shone into his eye. He fired, but missed, the bullet going a good six feet over Kino's head.
Kino pressed a second button on the side of the knife. A pistol barrel in the handle of the weapon fired. A .22 caliber round struck Dutch right between the eyes, killing him instantly.
Kino then picked up her weapons and returned to motorcycle.
WINNER: Kino
119's Edge[]
Kino won this battle because of the superior firepower of her weapons, including her MG-42 and semi-auto rifle, as well as her superior training and considerable combat experience.
Original battle, weapons, and votes here.