I'm really sorry for the delay. Anyway, last time we had my very first tie ever when the Highlander and Rajput both left the battlefield alive. Now we have the two super powers during the Cold War face off again! Fighting for Uncle Sam, we have...
MACV-SOG- The highly classfied, black ops group who started to conduct unconventional warfare against the NVA during the Vietnam War and a group so secret that not even high ranking CIA members didn't know about it.
who will take on a new oppnent....
Spetsnaz- The deadly Russiasn commandos, who spearhead the Russian Army and go behind enemy lines and commit sabotage, assassination, and gathering of enemy intel during times of war.
Those these two groups never met on the battlefield, with groups as secretive as these two, you never know. But now, when decided by you the users, the Cold War will be rfought once again to decide.....
WHO...IS.....DEADLIEST!!!!!!!!
Weapons []
MACV-SOG put fear into the hearts of the Viet Cong with.....
| SOG Recon Knife | Melee |
| Smith & Wesson 39 | Close Range |
| MAC-10 | Mid Range |
| CAR-15 | Long Range |
| C4 | Explosive |
Spetsnaz commandos fought for the Motherland with.....
| Saperka | Melee |
| Makorav | Close Range |
| PPSh-43 | Mid Range |
| AK-74 Carbine | Long Range |
| RGD-5 | Explosive |
Edges []
Melee: The Saperka, while getting the edge in reach and blunt trauma, is not as versatile or fast as the SOG Recon Knife. The SOG knife can thrust, slash, and even thrown if necessary. The Saperka can't compete. Edge: MACV-SOG
Close Range: The S&W has a bigger round. Edge: MACV-SOG
Mid Range: The PPSh-43 ultimately wins with the farther range, bigger magazine, and bigger muzzle velocity. Edge: Spetsnaz
Long Range: The CAR-15 has a faster RoF, bigger muzzle velocity, and has less recoile. Edge: MACV-SOG
Explosive: The RGD-5 is more portable, but the C4 may have a bigger blast and can be molded into any shape. I'm not sure on it's blast radius for sure, so I need someone to tell me for this edge to be complete. Edge: Even
X-factors []
MACV-SOG/X-factor/Spetsnaz
84 Brutality 89
88 Training 85
92 Unconvetional Tactics 78
86 Physicality 89 '
Expert's Opinion: MACV-SOG (by Redkite) []
I believe that MACV-SOG will prevail here. MACV-SOG was established in 1964 with the intention of being able to conduct unconventional warfare, however this expanded. At this point, MACV-SOG was so secret, not even high ranking members of the CIA knew of it's exsistance. MACV-SOG was established so America would have a rescue unit for POW's, a unit that could conduct strategic reconnaissance and a unit that could deal with the more advanced sections of Viet Cong and NVA technology and resources like the Ho-Chi Ming Trail. I believe MACV-SOG will win for several reasons here based on their experience, technology and strategy. MACV-SOG took on some of the most battle hardend rangers, marines and green berets whom had all pasted the the training demands on their previous units and the training of MACV-SOG. The intention of MACV-SOG training was built a skilled, flexible and multi-capable soldier whom could operate both reconnaissance and POW rescue and all aspects of combat related to it, aspects of reconnaissance combat including long range fighting and knowing your terrain, and aspects of POW rescue combat including close quarters combat.
MACV-SOG took battle hardened marines, rangers and green berets and only lengthend their stay in Vietnam as MACV-SOG harassed NVA and Viet Cong troops on the Ho-Chi Ming trail. MACV-SOG's strategy is concentrated maninly on strategic recon and POW rescue and all aspect related to the warfare of both. MACV-SOG soldiers learned to move in the ground silently and effectivley so they could watch and then act on strategic recon and to enter and clearly rooms quickly and effectivley with POW Rescue and this went hand in hand with they're technology, specifically being the latest and most effective weapons the US could provide.
MACV-SOG will have this. They have more specific technology to special forces warfare and more advanced technology due to the US's countless work on fighting Vietnam. MACV also have better strategy relevant to long and close range fighting and they will prevail here.
Expert's Opinion: Spetsnaz (by MilitaryBrat[]
The Spetsnaz are going to win this fight. And they will win it for three main reasons. The first reason is their ability to take more pain than should be humanly possible. Sonny Puzikas and Maxim Franz demonstrated this perfectly. Max was able to stand up to Geoff's punches. And he isn't exactly your neighborhood teenage virgin either. Another part of this is the Spetsnaz capability to give pain. It is drilled into their heads that if they want to give pain, they need to know how to take pain as well. You get treated like shit, beaten up, and basically put through hell for 25-50 weeks. 1 in 3 people don't finish Spetsnaz training.
Another part of the spetsnaz's victory is the training. Yes I started last paragraph but I'm talking more about it. Like I said its 25-50 weeks of hell. In Spetsnaz training, the instructors basically do things to you that would not be allowed in Western countries. Russia is known for not really giving a crap about human rights. And it really shows in Spetsnaz training. They're made to swim in pools of blood to familirize themselves with the stench of it.
And lastly you have all the misselaneous things that make this warrior's victory. The Spetsnaz were founded by Soviet General Georgy Zhukov. He established 46 Spetsnaz Companies in 1950. The Spetsnaz have fought in every conflict the Soviet Union as been in since 1950. They've really only had one difficulty, and that was in dealing with the Mujahadeen freedom fighters in the 1970's and 1980's. That was only because they were fighting a guerilla group. But they have most likely gotten better, and developed better tactics to combat said threat since then.
Notes []
- Voting ends January 1st, 2013.
- The battle will take place in an abandoned military base with surrounding jungles.
- Battle will five-on-five.
- I am sorry in any mistakes in spelling, grammer, or historical inaccuracy.
Battle []
MACV-SOG: 
Spetsnaz: 
Five Spetsnaz commandos get off a helicopter in an abandoned military in Korea. "Хорошо давайте сделаем это быстро. (Alright, let's make this quick.)" the sergeant tells his men. "Da. (Yes)" His men say in unison. At the other side of the base, five MACV-SOG operatives finish taking off their parachutes and top off their rifles. "The dossier is somewhere in this base. Let's get in and get out.' their sergeant orders. "You got it boss." one says. Both teams advance through the base without resistance. As the MACV-SOG squad enter a warehouse, one spots a Spetsnaz commando grabbing the intel they were sent for. "Hey, who the hell are you?" one American yells. The Spetsnaz simply lifts up his hands up and whistles. "Hit the deck!" There are more of them!" The sergeant yells. He and three of his men get behind cover, but one isn't quick enough as the Spetsnaz draws his Makorav and plants a round in his head. The MACV-SOG sergeant picks up his CAR-15 and sends a burst of rounds into the commando's chest. The rest of the commandos run in with their assault rifles and submachine guns. A firefight ensures and soon the Spetsnaz are retreating to set up an ambush. The four remaing MACV-SOG operatives loot the commando and grab the dossiers they came for. "Sir, we got what we came for. Let's go." one says to him. "No, those men were Russian special forces. We can't let them contact the boys in Moscow, or the Cold War will get started just when it ended." the sergeant replies. He runs into the room the Spetsnaz left out of. The three remaining Americans shrug and continue. Meanwhile.....
The Spetsnaz leader finishes burning the remaining nuclear plans when he realizes he didn't have all of them. "Димитрий, где остальные документы? (Dimitri, where are the rest of the documents?) he says. "Вот дерьмо, Юрий были.(Shit, Yuri had them.)" Dimitri tells him. "Черт возьми, янки есть тех, кто сейчас!(Dammit, the Yanks have those now!)" the leader yells. The MACV-SOG operatives have been watching them in silence from the nearby jungle brush. One takes aim with his MAC-10 and fires a stream of bullets into Dimitri's head. The rest of the Spetsnaz commandos see the American and fire their AK-74's, killing him. The rest of the Americans try to fire their CAR-15's, but one soldier's gun jams because of the mud in it. The Spetsnaz leader aims his PPSh-43 and sends a round burst into his chest. "Retreat!" the leader of MACV-SOG yells. "Получить этих документов. (Get those documents!)" The two groups quickly run into the jungles. The MACV-SOG group splits up and all blend in with the jungle. The Spetsnaz commandos split up too. A lone commando walks through the jungle, the planes in his face. As he pushes one out of the way, a MACV-SOG operative sneaks up behind him and stabs him in the back. In his last moments of life, the commando pulls the pin of an RGD-5 grenade and blows them both up. . The two remaining Spetsnaz go to their comrade and bow their heads in respect. The MACV-SOG leader and his subordinates watched the explosion and detonate the C4 they planted on the Russians body. The Spetsnaz leader is thrown against a tree, while his comrade has both of his legs blown off. The two Americans walk up to the commando. The leader draws his S&W 39 and puts him out of his misery. The Spetsnaz leader draws his Makorav and puts seven rounds into the subordinate and shoots the pistol out of the MACV-SOG leader's hand. The American draws his SOG Recon Knife and charges the commando. The Spetsnaz attempts to reload, but the American slashes the pistol out of his hands. He then tries a thrust, but the Spetsnaz grabs his knife hand and flips him over his shoulder. He takes out his Saperka and attempts to finish him. The MACV-SOG segeant rolls out of the way and kicks the Spetsnaz's hand away. He sees his S&W and throws his knife at the Spetsnaz. It misses, but it gives him enough time to grab his pistol.
(imagine in slow motion)
The Spetsnaz picks up the knife he threw at him and throws it back. The knife spins into the American's forehead, and he falls down, dead. The Spetsnaz commando sits down by a tree and calls for evac.
Final Verdict []
The reason the Spetsnaz won was because they had superior training and the more reliable weapons for the jungle enviroment. Their assault rifle jammed less and their sheer brutality managed to snag a victory against the American commandos.