Two masters of black powder warfare. Two cruel callous conquerors. And two warriors with losing streaks on this site that really don't reflect how dominating they were historically.
The Redcoat, the warriors who made Britannia rule the world.
The Janissary, the slave soldiers of the Ottoman Empire who dominated both Southern Europe and the Middle East.
Years ago, a match between them was made and while it was good, the reasoning of the votes was not up to par and the match gave the Janissaries an Abus gun(what a howitzer would be doing in a squad battle I'll never know.) So hopefully, this second chance shows a major improvement.
And for this fight, the two soldiers will be the most well known versions. The Redcoats are 18th century and the Janissaries are 15th-16th century.
Redcoat[]
The British Army is the land division of the British Armed Forces. They adopted the red uniforms in 1645 and the name redcoat stuck. While other nations like the Dano-Norwegian Union and Hanover adopted red uniforms for their soldiers and red uniforms were worn by certain specialized divisions from nations like the United States, France, Switzerland, and more, the red uniforms became a symbol of the British soldiers. It is a common misconception that the red uniforms were introduced to conceal blood stains(blood will indeed show on red uniforms as black); Instead, the motive to adopt red was financial as red uniforms were less expensive in the mid 17th and 18th centuries. They conquered vast territory in North America during the Intercolonial wars and the conquests of Australia and India. Redcoats were continuously deployed on battlefields across East, West, and inbetween until several factors in the later Victorian era made them less viable. Rifling becoming cheaper and more practical meant soldiers could aim better and more precisely. The invention of smokeless powder meant there was less smoke to cover the battlefield, making the need to stand out an unneeded hazard rather than a necessity. The last redcoats were deployed in battle in 1885 to be replaced with khaki uniforms. There was a short lived attempt to revive the red uniform in 1980 using fadeless modern chemical dyes which were less expensive than cochineal but that idea was not implemented. Red uniforms are still worn by British, Canadians, and other soldiers as ceremonial dress.
The British are ready for action with:
- Long gun: Brown Bess Musket. The primary flintlock weapon for much of the 18th century in the British Empire. At ~4.5 kilograms in weight and a range of ~90 meters, it wasn't the most accurate firearm but it could be mitigated with volley fire and was very commonly used. The musket fired one shot before needing to be reloaded though its loading speed was faster than that of a rifle.
- Polearm: Bayonet tipped musket. The spike bayonet can be attached to the end of a musket to allow the musket to be used as a spear as well as a firearm or club. At about .5 kg and 47 cm, it was an effective weapon for its time and wounds from a bayonet would've been devastating.
- Sidearm: Flintlock pistol. With a range of ~15 meters, it served well as a good sidearm. It still had the same reloading issues as the Brown Bess so some soldiers opted to carry multiple pistols.
- Melee weapon: Sabre. At about a kilogram and about a meter long, the sabre/saber was the sword of choice for 18th century melee combat. While an excellent cavalry weapon, it served well as an infantry weapon as well.
Janissary[]
The janissary corps was formed from the introduction of the devshirme system in 1362 by Sultan Orhan and Vizier Alaeddin Pasha. Under the rules of that system, boys from captured territory(often Christian European) were trained in military tactics, drill, and martial arts as well as gaining high quality education and were converted to Sunni Islam. The janissaries were an elite infantry force within the Ottoman Empire and were responsible for expanding the empire's borders from Morocco to Assyria and southern Hungary to the Arabian Sea. While they were masters of military power, the janissaries also served as valued government officials and civil servants in peacetime. Until 1566, they were banned from marriage. Some became viziers and ended up exercising political power that at times, exceeded that of the sultan their legally designated master. The janissaries gradually relaxed the rules of inclusion but this meant diluting their previous excellent military prowess and like the empire they served, they experienced a serious decline from ~1600 onwards until their abolishment. Despite all this, the janissaries resisted efforts at reform until Mahmud II wiped them out in the Auspicious Incident in 1826.
These fearsome slave soldiers had a nasty arsenal consisting of:
- Long gun: Arquebus. The definitive firearm of the earlier post-Medieval Eurasian world, this matchlock firearm had a range of ~90 meters and a weight of 4 kg. The Ottomans were masters of Arquebus fire and were excellent marksmen as well as utilizers of volley fire.
- Polearm: Ottoman bardiche/axe. At 2 kg and 1.5 meters long, this axe served as a powerful melee weapon. It may also have served as a firing stand for arquebusiers.
- Sidearm: Grenade. Explosive bomb capable of a 3 meter blast radius.
- Melee weapon: Yataghan sword. At ~1 kg and ~1 meter long, it served as a valuable sidearm for janissaries whenever they had to fight in melee.
The imbalances[]
Operational experience: Both fought a wide variety of opponents and colonized them too. Ottomans conquered Constantinople, no small feat and also got dangerously close to conquering Vienna as well. Britain's conquered so many countries we could be here all day listing them; India, Burma, Ottawa land, Shawnee land, Ireland, Australia,...and that was always with a fierce resistance from the natives. A slight edge for the Redcoats due to conquering more territory.
Training: The Janissary wins this; When they were at the peak of their power, they were an all elite force. British training was high quality but the individual soldiers were more inconsistent in quality.
Discipline: Even. Redcoats had a professionally trained force that made green peasants into killer conquerors. Getting someone to stand in line formation and fire on the enemy while unprotected is no small feat-especially if the food has maggots. The Janissaries weren't too different with their conversion of young boys from Christian lands into devout Muslims and professional soldiers that brought fear to many Europeans.
Logistics: Both had high end equipment and funding for their time. I think the Redcoats win this one due to being able to rely on fast travel supply ships and hold onto territory far from their homeland of Britain. The Ottoman Empire was no slouch in this regard but they got strained when getting deeply into Central Europe.
Martial skill: This could go either way; Both were very skilled fighters as musketeers and as melee fighters.
Fight will be 5 on 5 in a coastal town in Sicily. All are infantry. Both sides see each other as enemies and while they will retreat and regroup if needed, they will not stop until they win or die.
When you vote, back your conclusion with reasoning. Vote anyway you feel fit but the weapons>imbalances/x-factors>conclusion format is a good one to follow. CONSTRUCTIVE(emphasis on constructive) criticism is welcome. Above all, I hope you have fun voting.
The story[]
The die had been cast. The British and Ottoman Empires had been friends for decades. But now they were butting heads.
Somewhere on a coast in Malta, a group of 5 Redcoats had captured a young woman. They wanted to make her tell the location of a secret passageway to Istanbul-underneath the city walls.
"Where is it? WHERE IS THE SECRET PASSAGE?!" the commander said calmly.
"Please, I don't know what you're talking about! Have mercy!" she begged, tears in her eyes.
"I'm losing patience!" The commander was getting more agitated. He readied his pistol. Unknown to them, several Janissaries had sailed out. They wanted to convince the Maltese to side with them and not the British but after disembarking, the commander saw several Redcoats interrogating a local woman.
"Bu korkunç! O zorbalara ne için olduğunu öğretelim!(That is horrifying! Let's teach those bullies what for!)" shouted the commander. Actually, that WAS something he'd totally do without remorse but whatever. The Janissaries charged forward. The battle was on! (Redcoats: 5, Janissaries: 5)
The Redcoats saw the enemy arriving and their commander ordered everyone into formation. The woman ran off, knowing it was a bad idea to be caught in the crossfire. "FIRE!" the commander shouted but he soon got nailed in the throat by a gunshot. (Redcoats: 4, Janissaries: 5)
"Well, guess I got promoted." said one soldier with a shrug. "FIRE!" The redcoats loosed a volley only a few precious seconds after their old commander died. By either panicked aiming or rotten luck, the volley mostly missed except for a shot to one Janissary's throat. Another hit a Janissary's badge and ricocheted off only to hit his companion in the face. (Redcoats: 4, Janissaries: 3) The Janissaries tried for a volley of their own and fired after one charged forward with a grenade who then ducked after his friends fired. This volley ended up with one Redcoat shot through the heart and another shouting in pain after getting hit in the ribcage. One narrowly avoided hitting the commander's head and instead tore through his hat, making him furious over having his hat ripped. The grenade ended up tackled midair by one soldier who then blew to pieces in a pile of blood, bone fragments, and charred flesh. (Redcoats: 2, Janissaries: 3) The redcoats tried to reload for another volley but they were soon getting swarmed by a trio of charging angry Janissaries. The arquebusiers weren't able to reload in time and besides, the match cords were getting wet anyway. The commander ordered them to attack. The British commander drew a pistol and it hit an Ottoman right in the chest, causing the Janissary to collapse while coughing up blood only to be trampled to death. (Redcoats: 2, Janissaries: 2) The soldiers engaged. One Redcoat thrust his bayonet forward and clashed with an axe wielding Janissary. The Redcoat blocked repeated chops from the Janissary while trying to counter with either a club strike or bayonet stab. The Janissary kept pressing his attack. Finally, the Redcoat's side injury was acting up and he missed his thrust while getting an axe strike to the chest. (Redcoats: 1, Janissaries: 2) The commander meanwhile drew another pistol and shot one Janissary through the head and barely missed another who dropped his axe. (Redcoats: 1, Janissaries: 1) Then they drew swords.
"O benim eski okul arkadaşımdı! ödeyeceksin!(That was my old school friend! You're gonna PAY!)" shouted the Janissary.
"It's just you and me now! Bring it!" said the redcoat. They circled around each other, saber and yataghan sword at the ready. Neither could afford a wrong move. The redcoat lunged first with a swipe to the left. The Janissary dodged and tried to stab but he was forced to pull back. Then the redcoat tried for an overhead slash but the Janissary blocked it. He then pushed the Redcoat off him. The Redcoat then tried for his own stab. He got slashed on the leg for his troubles but he successfully stabbed his enemy through the throat. The last Janissary coughed up blood, collapsed, and after a few seconds of a blood puddle forming on the beach, he lay still. The Redcoat shouted "Rule Britannia!" Then he limped off, gasping in pain. He would have to rest and recover before trying to infiltrate Constantinople and demand to speak with the Grand Vizier or Sultan. But after what happened on this day? It would only be the beginning of war!
Winner: Redcoats
Conclusion[]
This was definitely an interesting comparison but if you measured them up against each other, it wasn't hard to pick the winner. The Redcoats had this; They had the superior operational experience, comparable discipline, and a generally superior arsenal. And of course, who made Britannia rule the waves? For a couple centuries at that? Redcoats did that! And it says a lot their empire was the one that constantly innovated and adapted to the point the British Empire remained a superpower until after World War II-long after the Redcoats were gone from the battlefield. The Janissaries for their part had their own advantages. They were better soldiers on average and better trained as they were designed to be elite warriors. This match's winner shows the escalation of technology; Flintlocks beat matchlocks. While some may call foul and demand warriors from the same time period, it wouldn't necessarily work out. The Janissaries experienced a deterioration of fighter quality after the 16th century so 18th century Janissaries wouldn't necessarily fare better. Meanwhile, the Redcoats didn't exist when the Janissaries were at their peak. So in conclusion:
18th century Redcoats vs 18th century Janissaries=Redcoats win.
18th century Redcoats vs 15th-16th century Janissaries(this match)=Redcoats win.
15th-16th century Redcoats vs 15th-16th century Janissaries=Janissaries win by default because the Redcoat didn't exist yet-a match with English Medieval foot soldiers facing the Janissaries is a match for another time.
In this battle, the Redcoats triumph because of their superior weaponry, operational experience, and the fact they weren't too far behind in fighting skill either.
Next time...[]
*Preliator-Globus plays*
An Ancient Spartan stares down his opponent, growling. A samurai shouts and readies his yari.