User blog comment:Manofgod/Genghis Khan vs Red Cloud/@comment-110.54.231.159-20171118180122

‘’’GT25's Edges‘’’

‘’’Close Range (Ild vs Gunstock War Club):’’’ This one is difficult to call. The Ild has a longer blade and a better cavalry weapon than the club, but the club is the better infantry weapon and anti-cavalry weapon. If the Mogols can close the gap with their horses their ild will prevail, but if the Lakota with their stock club catch them first then they’ll prevail. ‘’’Edge: Even’’’

‘’’Medium Range (Jida Lance vs War Lance):’’’ Like the ild, the jida excells the most in cavalry warfare, but the war lance is more versatile since it can be used on both foot and horseback. ‘’’Edge: Red Cloud’’’

‘’’Long Range (Composite Bow vs War Bow):’’’ The only advantage the Indian bow has is in rate of fire, but the composite bow beats it in terms of power and range. What use is being able to fire more arrows if your enemy can kill you more accurately from afar? ‘’’Edge: Genghis Khan’’’

‘’’Special (Chinese Crossbow vs Enfield Carbine):’’’ From what I can research the Mongols seldom used crossbows and if they do use them its only for sieges. A siege crossbow does not have the power, accuracy, range or manoeuvrability of a good carbine. The enfield carbine can penetrate whatever armor the Mongols are wearing. However, I will disagree with Spartan and Wassboss in the effectiveness of the gun’s psychological effect since the Mongols also had to dace against the hand canons and bombs of the Song Dynasty. ‘’’Edge: Red Cloud’’’

‘’’Tactics (Feigned Retreat vs Bait and Bash):’’’ Since both are nomadic horse warriors these two iconic battlefield tactics looks very similar. I will give it to Genghis Khan since he did used feigned retreat on a fellow Mongol warrior who probably knows all about that tactic but still fell for it. While Ted Cloud used the bait and bash against a more technologically advanced foe. Red Cloud tactics, like his weapons, are more versatile. Khan is all about large scale battlefields, but Red Cloud can use his wits for both small skirmishes and large battlefields. ‘’’Edge: Red Cloud’’’

‘’’X-Factors:’’’ Red Cloud did defeated the United States of America and probably some Spanish or Mexican settlements here or there, but this is Genghis Khan we are talking about. He created (or began the creation) of the largest continuous empire in history. The Sioux fought only the United States and give or take maybe some Spanish/Mexican settlements and other tribes. Genghis Khan took on the Chinese, Persian and the Russians and won (YES! He defeated the people that not even Napoleon and Hitler could defeat). Khan also has the edge when it comes to resources and logistics while Red Cloud only had to scavenge. So if this is an all out war then Genghis Khan would automatically win. ‘’’Edge: Genghis Khan’’’

‘’’Overall:’’’ I really thought that the Mongols might triumph over the Native Americans this time but even with Genghis Khan on their side, they are still no match against ‘’’Red Cloud’’’ and his braves. There really is a reason why the Native Americans are underrated when it came to horse archers since there is discrimination of them for being stone age primitives and less advanced warriors compared to the Huns, Scythians or the Mongols. But clearly this is not the case because while they do not wear any armor, they know how to handle firearms and other ingenious weapons that makes them a cut above the rest. Their combination of firearms and bows in their warfare is the reason why Red Cloud is going to win.

I disagree with Wassboss in saying that the Mongols will win because of armor. We have already seen in the Comanche vs Mongol episode that Indian weapons like the spear will go through Mongol armor, especially on horseback. From what I can find, only Genghis Khan and other high ranking combatants wear steel and iron armor. The rest of the Mongols during Temujin’s time had leather strips or silk armor. Its good against Indian arrows but not that  good against everything else. And it sure as hell isn’t going to survive being shit by a carbine.

But Red Cloud’s more versatile weapon and firearm doesn’t automatically give him the victory. Genghis Khan has shown the capability to defeat the Song Chinese with their gunpowder weapons and hand cannon. But Red Cloud has fought against more advanced armies than this and won with just their bows and carbine. Either it be close quarters or on horseback, I don’t see Genghis ever winning this battle.