User blog comment:Kazanshin/Sun Tzu vs Hongi Hika (Maori)/@comment-4661256-20180819020948

El Alamein's Dissenting Opinion:

 Close Range: Jian vs. Toki Kaka Poto:  I'm actually giving the edge to the toki kaka poto. The jian is a gentleman's weapon, intended for use with martial arts and not necessarily battlefield combat. The blade looks really thin and while Wikipedia says it can slash as well as thrust, I'm not convinced as to its versatility. Any slashes that Sun Tzu makes will cut but not with the same weight as a sword actually designed to do that. Alternately, the Maori's hand axe may not be made of metal, but it's a big, mean weapon that will be able to cut or bludgeon, especially in the hands of the physically imposing Maori warriors. Yes, Sun Tzu is a classically trained gentleman and scholar who will know how to make elegant and precise strikes with the jian, but I don't think that's the best way to approach a battle with Maori warriors.

Edge: Hongi Hika

 Mid Range: Zhua vs. Taiaha:  Obvious edge for the taiaha. The zhua is big, long, heavy, and only really has a dangerous killing surface with its claws, which don't even seem to be properly oriented to inflict bleeding damage. It's basically a very long club and I don't see how it can be ergonomically effective to wield that thing in combat. The taiaha is not only the mainstay of Maori combat, but an overall practical weapon, which can practically cut as well as bludgeon. I would consider it to be of a far more manageable length for a two-handed weapon. But ultimately what this boils down to is that the taiaha is a good weapon and the zhua isn't.

Edge: Hongi Hika

 Long Range: Repeating Crossbow vs. Trade Musket:  I think everyone is massively underestimating the potential for the musket to function as a psychological weapon. First of all, this type of gunpowder weapon is lightyears ahead of anything that Sun Tzu could ever conceive of (that is, if Sun Tzu even was around at the same time as gunpowder weapons in China; I don't know those dates off the top of my head and I'm too lazy to look them up). So Sun Tzu's random peasant conscripts are going to be pretty freaked out at these guns when they open fire, especially if it kills or wounds one of them. Second of all, the Maori were able to effectively utilize firearms in combat, so I think it's a little patronizing to assume that Hongi Hika and his men won't be able to pose a threat with their guns. Yes, a trade musket is not an optimal firearm when it comes to accuracy or rate of fire if you compare it to a modern assault rifle, but for its time it functioned accordingly and I'm sure that the Maori, knowing how to use these weapons, will be able to operate within the limitations of their tools. The repeating crossbow will, however, still pose a threat. It can lay down an impressive volume of fire and the unarmored Maori will have to be careful. For that reason, I'm calling it a draw. The repeating crossbow is a fine weapon in this fight but the trade musket is absolutely functional and should be considered a threat for Sun Tzu and his soldiers.

Edge: Even

 Special Weapons: Bishou vs. Mere:  I'm giving it to the mere. The bishou will be a fine weapon, but I don't think that Sun Tzu or any of his poor conscripted soldiers are going to fare well in a melee tussle with the bigger and more physically imposing Maori warriors. Since both weapons have an equal chance to wound or kill the enemy as far as their design goes, I'm giving the edge to the mere on the basis that the Maori warriors will have the upper hand if the fighting gets to such a close range.

Edge: Hongi Hika

 Armor:  Obviously Sun Tzu gets the edge, although it's worth noting that his armor won't do much to actually make the Maoris unable to hurt him. Their weapons will either penetrate his armor and then some (i.e. the musket) or else bludgeon him right through it with a combination of physical strength and weapons designed to club opponents (i.e. taiaha, mere, toki kaka poto). Plus Sun Tzu's armor leaves plenty of vulnerable spots. However, obviously, it will offer him a degree of protection that will be nice to have. He'll need it.

Edge: Sun Tzu

 X-Factors:  I'm giving it straight to Hongi Hika. First of all, Sun Tzu was a scholar, a strategist, and an author, not a warrior himself. He's probably signficantly older than the men he's leading into combat, so I'm totally discounting Sun Tzu's effectiveness as a combatant himself in this fight. Now you might make the case that he's such a genius strategist that he could direct his four men to victory but a lot of Sun Tzu's Art of War is common sense. And so much of it deals with operations on the campaign level that it's going to be useless in a five-on-five skirmish. The soldiers he's leading into battle are going to be imperial troops who are probably conscripts. They may be well-equipped and properly drilled, but the Maori warriors are bigger physically (which is of significant importance in a fight where you're talking about guys going at it with swords, daggers, and clubs) and, realistically speaking, have more relevant combat experience, given the Maori way of warfare. Hongi Hika will thus probably be a superior leader since he will know his men better (Sun Tzu will be a distant elite autocrat for his conscripts, whereas Hongi Hika is the chief who lived with and fought with his warriors in other engagements). So actually I think that the whole "tactics" X-Factor might be straight-up wrong. Hongi Hika will be a more effective leader in a five-on-five skirmish than Sun Tzu. I have no doubt about that.

MAJOR EDGE: HONGI HIKA

WINNER: HONGI HIKA

I feel like I have laid out a convincing argument as to why Sun Tzu's losing streak will continue. A lot of the feats attributed to Sun Tzu are probably the stuff of legend, and even if they were true, he'd still be participating in a fight that is way out of his element. Sun Tzu is a strategist, not a tactician. He deals with grand campaigns, logistics, and movements at the army level in ''The Art of War. This fight is definitely not ''at an army level.

But even that aside, Hongi Hika as an individual will have more relevant combat experience, will be a superior leader who will have earned more trust and respect from his warriors, and will be better suited to this type of battle. I also think that the muskets will play a bigger role than people are giving them credit for. Hongi Hika participated in the Musket Wars, for crying out loud, a series of wars literally named after the fact that musket warfare fundamentally changed how the Maoris fought. I think it's crazy to imply that a guy who fought in wars named after muskets will be unable to utilize muskets properly in combat.

But even setting the issue of the muskets aside, the Maori are physically bigger than Sun Tzu and his conscripted soldiers, so the rest of their weapons will prove to be deadly despite the fact that they're not made of traditional metals. I don't know if Hongi Hika will be able to come back from his current lag in the votes, so there's a good chance that Sun Tzu will end up the victor by virtue of votes. But there's no way at all that I see him winning this. He loses. Hard.