Talk:Ishamael

Not trying to be mean here, but this fight (and character summary) needs a lot of work. I like that a Wheel of Time character was used, but when I saw the weapons of choice, I was disappointed, especially since the user who generated this fight obviously read the books.

While it could be argued that Ishy knew how to use a sword, we never see him wield one in books 1-3. (in the following books he's either dead, or reincarnated as Moridin, who can be considered a different character) In book 2, The Great Hunt, he uses a wooden staff, blackened by (presumably) the Dark One's power. Sparks are generated when Rand's Power-wrought sword strikes against it, (pg. 664) so it's obviously not just another piece of wood. This is the only time we see him use a weapon. Otherwise, he has relied on the One Power, or the True Power, to do his killing. I fail to see why he was given a sword instead of this weapon.

Now, my feelings on magic warriors in general, is that unless fantasy magic has some very specific limitations put in place by the author, its effectiveness in combat can't be predicted. For example, in the Harry Potter series, a wizard or witch can use any number of spells by pointing their wand and saying (or thinking) the correct spell words. If a wizard is deprived of his wand, he cannot cast, but with the wand, his powers are only limited by his knowledge of incantations. On Buffy the Vampire Slayer, the way magic works is dependant on who's writing that day. In Laurell K. Hamilton's Merry Gentry novels, magic is generally confined to "Hands of Power." And a Hand of Power generally only does one thing. For instance, Merry's Hand of Flesh can turn a person inside out. This could be listed as a special weapon, and since it requires physical contact with the target, we have a good idea how it would be used. It's effect would be instantly lethal to anyone who isn't immortal, and even if they were, it would certainly be a fight finisher. (you can't fight very well if you're a useless screaming ball of flesh)

My point is that unless specific limitations or specific spells are analysed, magic will always be an X-factor, and a pretty significant one depending one whose magic we're talking about. Simply calling saidin or the True Power a weapon doesn't begin to describe what they can do, or the important differences between them. Saidin is the male half of the One Power, and the only real difference this makes in combat is pretty much limited to in-universe fights. Men can't use saidar and women can't use saidin. Additionally, weaves of saidin can be sensed by women, but they can't be seen, and vice versa. The One Power comes from the True Source, and the True Power comes from the Dark One. (yes, I know that's confusing; blame Robert Jordan) We have a good idea of many of the things that the One Power can do in a fight, but we don't know enough about the True Power to be sure of how it is functionally different from the One Power. We know that the True Power can't by sensed by another channeler unless they themselves have been granted the use of it. We also know that the Dark One can cut off someone's access at his discretion, and we know that anything created by the One Power can be destroyed by the True Power. Otherwise, it doesn't seem to be weaker or stronger than the One Power. We've seen Gateways created with the True Power, Moridin uses it to blow up a rat, and we've also seen it used to weave balefire. Someone outside the Wheel of Time series likely wouldn't be able to sense the True Power any better than they could sense the One Power, so it wouldn't make a difference which one is being used against them.

So, if we are considering the One Power as a weapon, one should define what the combatant will be doing with it, instead of making the blanket categorization that the One Power itself is a weapon. Think about the tests being done on Deadliest Warrior. We see a person wielding the weapon and we see the damage it does to a target. We also know why a fighter is limited to certain weapons: Because he can't just whip out a weapon he didn't have before. (unless he's an IRA boss) Magic, when defined generally, doesn't have that same limitation. You could say that Ishamael has balefire as a weapon, but he could just as easily throw fireballs, call down lightning bolts, or just flat out blow stuff up. Additionally, he could immobilize a target in flows of Air, or cut them off from the True Source with a shield, (which may or may not work on a magic user outside WoT) or create a Gateway to run away or shift the fight over to Tel'aran'rhiod where he wouldn't even need to channel to be a danger because he could just think stuff into existence Freddy Krueger style. These are all factors that need to be accounted for before one can make a judgement call about whether WoT magic is better or worse than any other fantasy magic.

As this page stands, it looks like unfinished, rushed, and even lazy work. Again, not trying to be mean, but I would give the same criticism to anyone I'm workshopping. And if you can't take negative criticism, just disable the comment boards like the Irate Gamer does. Be glad someone cares enough to tell you what's wrong. And maybe I've thought too much about all this, but that's how it is. Any hardcore fan of the Wheel of Time series has thought just as hard about it, and will react the same way, and possibly, a great deal less civilly, rules of conduct be frigged.

99.197.208.125 03:24, May 23, 2011 (UTC)