User blog:SPARTAN 119/P-1000 Ratte (German proposed vehicle) VS Marmota (Valkyria Chronicles)

The Landkreuzer P-1000 Ratte, the 1000-ton super-heavy tank proposed by Nazi Germany, armed with two battleship guns

VS

Marmota, the massive Imperial land battleship armed designed to plow through Gallian defenses

Only one can be the DEADLIEST WAR MACHINE!

P-1000 Ratte

 * Length: 35 meters
 * Width: 14 meters
 * Height: 11 meters
 * Weight: 1000 tons
 * Top Speed: 40 kph
 * Armor: 150-360mm (5.9- 14.2 inches)
 * Armament: 2x 280mm (11.1-inch) guns in one twin turret, 1 or 2x 127mm guns in one or two single turrets, 2x “Flakvierling quad 20mm AA guns, 2x 15mm autocannons

The Landkreuzer P. 1000 "Ratte" (English: Land Cruiser P. 1000 "Rat") was a - possibly fanciful - design for a landship for use by Nazi Germany during World War II, that may have been proposed by Krupp director Edward Grotte in June 1942, who had already named it "Landkreuzer". Submitted designs and drawings of the vehicle went under the names OKH Auftrag Nr. 30404 and E-30404/1, which were presented in December 1942. The tank was planned to be 1000 tonnes, being far heavier than the Panzer VIII "Maus", the heaviest tank ever built (weighing 188 tonnes). The project gained the approval of Adolf Hitler, who had expressed interest in the development of the tank, but was cancelled by Minister of Armaments Albert Speer in early 1943. The Ratte was to carry a main armament of two 280mm naval guns previously used on the Gneisenau-class battleship, with a secondary armament of either one or two 127mm anti-tank guns similar to those used on the Maus, two quad-barreled 20mm Flakvierling anti-aircraft guns, and two 15mm autocannons.

280mm naval guns x2
The Ratte’s main armament was to be two 280mm (11.1-inch) SK C-34 naval guns left over from the refit of the Gneisenau-class battleships. The guns were to be mounted in a twin turret on the roof of the vehicle capable of rotating at least 180, possibly as much as 360 degrees. The guns could be fired up to about 40 kilometers at maximum elevation and could penetrate 604mm (23 in) of belt armor at close range. At 7.9 kilometers, it’s maximum belt armor penetration was 460mm (18 in), dropping to 335mm (13.1 in) at 15.1 km, 291mm (11.5 in) at 18.2 km, and 205mm (8.1 in) at 27.4 km. The gun could pierce up to 76mm/3-inches of deck armor at long ranges (27.4 km), dropping to only 19mm (.75 in) at 7.9 km (deck armor penetration decreases as range gets closer and shell angle becomes shallower). The gun could fire a 741 lb armor piercing shell, a well as 697 pound semi-AP shell and a 694 lb incendiary shell. Most naval guns of the period could fire 1-2 rounds per minute (3-4 rpm for the two guns on the Ratte.
 * Maximum range: about 40 km
 * Rate of Fire: ~ 1-2 rpm
 * Armor Penetration: 335mm at 15.1 km
 * Firing Arc: 180-360 degrees

2x 128 mm anti-tank gun
The Ratte was to be armed one or two 128mm guns anti-tank guns, though their placement varies widely between different depictions of the Ratte. Some depictions of the vehicle place one 128mm guns in a bow mount, while others put a single gun co-axial to the two main guns in the turret. Still other depictions show two 128mm guns in two single turrets mounted on the back of the vehicle for defense against flanking attacks. For the purposes of this match, the version with two 128mm guns in rear turrets will be used. These guns would presumable be similar to the PaK 44 anti-tank gun and related KwK-44 gun developed for the Maus super heavy tank. The 128mm gun had similar armor penetration to the famous 88mm at close to medium range, but a distinct advantage at long to extreme ranges (1600-2700 meters or greater), and could be used as field artillery when firing HE rounds. The gun fired a 28 kg (64-pound) HE or AP shell with a maximum range of about 24 kilometers.
 * Range: 24 km (though most anti-tank engagements happen less than 2000 meters)
 * Armor Penetration: 230mm (9.1inches) at 1000 meters, 200 millimetres (7.9 in) at 2,000 metres (2,200 yd), 173 millimetres (6.8 in) at 3,000 metres (3,300 yd).
 * Firing arc: ~120 degrees per turret, entire rear covered by at least one gun.

Other Armament
The other weapons carried by the Ratte included two quad 20mm Flakvierling anti-aircraft guns mounted on turrets on top of the roof, as well as two 15mm autocannons in an unspecified location for anti-personnel use. Neither of these weapons would be able to signficantly damage the Marmota, so they are not likely to be relevant in this fight. The one possible exception is the heat sinks, which can be damaged by even small arms fire, but these would only be possible to directly target with the autocannons at extreme close ranges.

Marmota

 * Length: 142.5 meters
 * Width: 32.2 meters
 * Height: 35.8 meters
 * Weight: 17,800 tons
 * Top Speed: 25 kph
 * Armor: Unclear- only heat sinks, damaged plating, heat sinks, secondary, and tertiary turrets can be damaged by tank gun fire, based on tonnage, at least comparable to British Lord Nelson-class battleship (12-inch belt, other areas range from 2-12 inches).
 * Armament: 2x 800mm guns in forward-firing centerline mount, 2x 340mm 14-inch guns in two forward-firing centerline mounts, 19 130mm (5.1-inch) guns in 19 side-mount turrets (8-gun broadside), 12 37mm heavy autocannons in mounts around the side of the ship.

NOTE: The version of the Marmota in this fight will be from before the Valkof was mounted.

As the world of Valkyria Chronicles lacked any form of heavier-than-air aircraft, armored vehicles were able to develop to gargantuan size far greater than any other vehicle on Earth. The culmination is the 142-meter long, 16,800 ton Marmota, built to Maximilian's specifications in a joint effort with the Imperial Navy, this vehicle blurs the line between tank and battleship in a new class called the "terrestrial dreadnought." Four engines and two propellers work in parallel to power this behemoth, allegedly developed as a mobile platform for the Valkof, a massive ancient Valkyur directed energy weapons capable of causing devastating. An experimental artificial Valkyria apparatus is said to have been installed at the rear of its main deck. In terms of armament, the vehicle’s main armament (apart from the Valkof) are two 800mm guns in a forward-firing bow mount, with two 340mm (13.3-inch) naval guns in forward firing mounts above them. The vehicle also carried 19 130mm (5.1-inch) naval guns in 19 single turrets, meaning it even its secondary armament has firepower equivalent to two WWII-era light cruisers. The vessel also has 12 37mm heavy autocannons for use against infantry and light vehicles. The Marmota appears to be a massive hovercraft powered by 208,000 horsepower engine capable of moving it at speeds of up to 25 kph.

2x 800mm forward centerline gun
The main armament of the Marmota are two massive 800mm cannon running along the centerline of the vehicle and firing forward only. These guns are in stationary mounts about half way up the hull, with no elevation or traverse. While exact data is not known as it is a weapon from a video game, it can be presumed to be similar to the real-world German 800mm Gustav railway gun. The Gustav fired a 4800 kg HE shell or 7100 kg AP shell a distance of up to 40 kilometers, with the AP round punching through 7 meters of concrete, and the HE round creating a 9 meter wide by 9 meter deep crater on impact.
 * Range: unknown, estimated less than 10 km given lack of elevation
 * Shell weight: Massive, 4800 kg HE, 7100 kg AP
 * Rate of Fire: slow, est 1 round every 30 minutes
 * Armor Penetration: massive, exact amount unclear
 * Firing arc: forward only- no traverse or elevation

It should be noted, however, that the 800mm gun on the Marmota likely has a much shorter range than the Gustav as, while the Gustav fired at a high angle, the Marmota is fixed in a forward firing mount with no elevation. Given the weight of the shell, it would likely limit its firing range significantly, likely to as little as 10 km or less. Given the design of the Marmota, the intent was likely for the heavily armored vehicle to advance on heavy fortifications and demolish them at relatively close range.

2x 340mm centerline guns
In addition to the 800mm forward guns, the Marmota also carries two 340mm (13.4 in) guns mounted in forward firing centerline mounts with no traverse or elevation mounted in the hull directly above the 800mm guns. As the game gives no detailed performance data, the specifications will be assumed based on the nearest similar real-world gun, the French 340mm naval gun mounted on the Bretagne-class battleships.
 * Range: unclear, likely no more than 10km given lack of elevation
 * Shell Weight: heavy, est. 382-575 kg (842-1268 lbs)
 * Rate of Fire: 2 rpm
 * Armor Penetration: unclear, heavy
 * Firing arc: forward only- no traverse or elevation

The French 340mm gun fired a 382 kg HE shell and a 1267 lb armor-piercing round, with an effective range of 29-25 km in a naval mount and a muzzle velocity of 800 m/s. I was unable to find armor penetration data for the 340mm gun, though it would certainly capable of penetrating battleship-grade armor at 15-20 km. The Marmota’s guns will be assumed to have similar performance, with the exception of the fact that, given the guns are in a fixed forward mount with no elevation, they would be unlikely to have a range of any more than ten kilometers, and are presumably intended primarily for direct fire against fortifications at close range.

19x 130mm anti-tanks guns

 * Range: est. 24 km
 * Shell Weight: est. 62 kg AP
 * Armor Penetration: est. 230mm at 1000 meters, 173mm at 3000 meters
 * Firing arc: est. 35-45 degrees broadside mounts, est. 120-150 degrees forward and rear.
 * Broadside: 8 guns

The Marmota’s secondary armament consists of 19 130mm (5.1 inch) guns for use as anti-tank and artillery guns. While no performance data is available for the guns in the game, it can be assumed they are similar to comparable real-world weapons, such as the German 128mm PaK 44 anti-tank gun. The PaK 44 fired a 28 kg (62 pound) armor piercing or high explosive shell at a muzzle velocity of 950 m/s and a maximum range of about 24 kilometers, though against a tank-sized target, it was usually used at no more than 3000 meters. The PaK 44 could penetrate 230mm of armor at 1000 meter, dropping to 173mm at 3000 meters. For the purposes of this match, the guns of the Marmota, which are of similar size and purpose will have comparable statistics to the PaK.

The Marmota carried 19 130mm gun in 19 single turrets placed around the vehicle, seven of the gun are mounted in broadside mounts mounted about half way up the hull, three are mounted in forward mounts in the front of the vehicle, and two more are presumably mounted in the rear. The broadside mounts would presumably be able to rotate no more than 35-45 degrees so as not to interfere with adjacent turrets, while the three forward and two rear turrets would presumably have a greater traverse of about 120-150 degrees in armor given the lack of obstructions and few turrets, meaning each gun has to cover a wider area. Based on the positions of the guns, the vehicle can fire a broadside of eight guns.

12x 37mm autocannon
The anti-personnel armament of the Marmota consists of twelve 37mm automatic cannons. These weapons would be practically useless against the heavy armor of the Ratte. At most, they might disable the Flakvierling guns on the roof.

=X-Factors=

Firing Range
In spite of having smaller main guns, the Ratte takes the advantage for having them in a more sensible mount, a rotating turret with at least 20 degrees of elevation. While the 800mm and 340mm guns on the Marmota could potentially have a longer range if placed in a mount with proper elevation, in the forward mount of the Marmota they are restricted to firing straight ahead at an elevation of roughly 0 degrees, severely restricting their range, perhaps to as little as a few kilometers. The 130mm secondary guns of the Marmota, while numerous, are unlikely to be capable of penetrating the Ratte’s main armor, and would not be capable of damaging even lightly armored parts of the vehicle at ranges of greater than a few kilometers.

Firing Arc
The Ratte takes the definitive edge, with a main armament that can be traversed at least 180 degrees and perhaps as much as 360 degrees, depending on whether the main guns can pass over the rear anti-tank turret. The Marmota, by contrast, can only fire its largest guns, the 800mm and 340mm guns directly forward at low angles, severely limiting the range range at which it can engage effectively.

Throw Weight
In terms of maximum throw weight (cumulative weight of all shells) at a ideal engagement angle, the Marmota takes the definitive edge with its massive 800mm and 340mm guns. It should be noted, however, that these guns have no traverse or elevation, meaning they can only be fired directly forward at reletively close ranges (for guns of their caliber, anyway). In most directions, the Ratte would have a wider firing arc.

Armor
Even, possibly slight edge Ratte, as the exact armor values are unknown, but the Ratte is as or more heavily armored than real-world warships of comparable weight to the Marmota.

Top Speed
The Ratte takes this on easily- it can travel at 40 kilometers per hour, while the Marmota is restricted to a speed of 25 kilometers per hour.

=Notes= The battle will take place in a terrain consisting of a combination of farmers fields, forests, and towns, with a few hills to hide behind.