User blog comment:Deathblade 100/Over the Top: German Stormtroopers vs Villistas/@comment-4661256-20180331205138/@comment-5559147-20180407201651

"I hear what you're saying, mate, but I think your points are rather simplistic and fail to take things into consideration. "

And I think you are being overly simplistic as well. Focusing on as you often do on the shiny boom factor and ignoring practical and human factors.

'''"They may be contemporaries, but that is irrelevant. I never raised that as an issue in my objection..." '''

No you didn't, but it is part of my point and opposition.

"...and as I have demonstrated in my initial comment, contemporariness does not automatically equate to a fair matchup. "

Your right contemporary opponents don't always make for a fair match. How ever you didn't demonstrate how this match is unfair.

"The submachine gun will be the most valuable tool in this fight. A semi-automatic rifle is nice but this does not provide the level of suppressive fire necessary to really make it a vastly superior choice to a bolt-action Mauser. Once again I call attention to the warriors wielding the weapons, and I am certain that a special forces Stormtrooper will be better trained with his weapons than a Villista would be with his weapons. "

Yes the submachine gun is going to be usefull, but they are fighting in setting that provides cover. Will it force the Villistas to keep there heads down sure. On the other hand the Mondragon has a decent chance of going through cover. Sure so will the Mauser and likely the Winchester, but this does mean that the Villistas have more weapons that turn cover into concealment. Then the Stormtroopers do.

"Once again I call attention to the warriors wielding the weapons, and I am certain that a special forces Stormtrooper will be better trained with his weapons than a Villista would be with his weapons. "

Remember the Stormtroopers are an early special forces unit, on many levels and expirement. They were still working out the bugs. We are not dealing with the fine tuned machine that is modern special forces operation and training. Even if we were irregular guerrillas are a common opponent for special forces and it doesn't always go well for the special forces. If you got questions about the hows and whys ask the Spetsnaz or American Teams that have operated in Afgahnistan, or the Green Berets in Vietnam, or the SS in occupied Europe.

Also lets take a minute to discuss Stormtrooper training. They were designed and trained to break the near stalemate of the trench warfare of the Great War. As such there training focused on finding weak points in trench works/defences and infiltrating them often under the cover of mcahine guns, artillery, and massed charges.

The Villistas on the other hand are actually kind of famous for raiding towns and taking over estates. In other words the kind of encounter taking place here.

As for weapons handling many of the Villistas came out of the Mexican cowboy tradition or were ranchers etc. A class of people who grew up with gun in hand others were mercanary soldiers, who made a career of fighting. In other words no i am not entirely sold on the idea that the Stormtroopers would be better with there weapons. Further the weapons being used by the Villistas are predominantly of types they would have years of experience with ( may well have grown up using ) the Stormtroopers on the other hand are using weapons that are either very new the MP18, hybrid expirements that Luger model, or were generally confined to military use, like the Mauser or grenade. Granted some might have had previous hunting experience with a bolt action rifle before joining up. Yes some of them may have been soldiers before the war began, but even then outside of the Mauser none of the Stormtroopers arsenal was in common usage before WW1. Again the MP18 came out in the last year of the war.

In other words we are sorta looking at the old experience vs training. Except how well can you train on a weapon thats brand new and the Villistas have some trained soldiers of there own.

"With regards to the dynamite point... no. That's not a good reason. The grenade is lightweight, portable, can be thrown a much longer distance, and a user can throw multiple grenades in rapid succession. Additionally, it has a uniform explosive charge and is a better vehicle to disperse shrapnel. A bundle of dynamite has literally none of the above advantages and will be next to useless in a firefight. If a stick of dynamite with a cartoonish wick was effective in warfare it would have been used more often.

You're making incredibly subjective claims about the ergonomics of the respective pistols while conveniently ignoring the fact that the Luger literally has more than five times the magazine capacity of the revolver, is semi-automatic instead of single-action, and has a demonstrably simpler reload process."

I'm not saying I'd give the dynamite the edge simply pointing out it does provide options the grenade doesn not.

That said these two paragraphs together seem to show odd hypocrisy on your part. Because if I am making "incredibly subjective claims about the ergonomics of the respective pistols" Then you are doing the same for the expolsives. Infact much of the language is even similar pointing out weight and ease of movement. Further if you are going to point to the lack of sticks of dynamite in military usage then I will point out that while basic hand guns are still in use pistol carbine hybrids with no forgrip and drum mags are not. Why because like grenades being more practical and easier to use then dynamite, your basic hand gun is more practical and easier to use then that Luger.

If you want to point out that SMG, 9mm carbines, and PDW still see use then i'll remind you that explosive charges do as well.

'''"To reiterate: the Stormtroopers are highly-trained special forces equipped with automatic weaponry, reliable explosives, and high-capacity sidearms who literally thrive in this small-unit encounter type of battle. The Villistas are absolutely outclassed and this is unfair for them." '''

I've already covered most of this, but to as you say. To Reiterate: Stormtroopers and many of there weapons are experiments. Whose training focused mostly on circumstances not found here. While the Villistas have spent years with there weapons and cut their teeth on this sort of encounter. This battle is far from unfair.

We have one group of irregulars with experience and tried and true weapons vs a group heavily trained in the ideas of, but lacking experience in irregular warfare ( that is broadly speaking what special forces employ ) weilding more modern, but some times more unweildly weapons. both sides have their pros and cons. thats what makes the match interesting and dare I say good.

"To address your final point, I am not running an Alameinian Inquisition. But as I seriously pursue military history for my academic career, I think it's only fair to challenge historical misconceptions that may pop up on the Wiki. Think of it as me trying to help people learn, if it makes it seem nicer. But the fact of the matter is, if I see a match that is grossly unfair then I'm going to call it out. We can have fun and still be historically and intellectually responsible. I won't apologize for that."

And again I'll ask why? Do you think you are helping the wiki in some way? This is not a historical wiki this is a wiki were Rambo can shoot it out with Jason Bourne. Nobody is going to refrences this place in academic papers. Nor should they.

Further what historical misconceptions are you challanging by shooting down matches? If anything you are curbing what learning may be taking place. When people see matches like this that they can vote on, it may cause them to further research the combatents involved. If its shut down, then they may have less motivation to do so.

In other words we are not a serious academic site, so this match is not going to hurt our reputation. You are not promoting learning.

So again why fret over it? Maybe you should make your points in vote form or if you don't like the match maybe you should ignore it.