User blog comment:WraithOfWaffle/Battle Eight: Carnegie (The Book of Eli) vs. The Governor (AMC's The Walking Dead)/@comment-5559147-20140218185950

Well so far it looks like this is gonna be stomp, but I'll vote any way.

I suppose I'll start with weapons edges.

Melee

Machete vs Bowie Knife

The bowie knife is a fine weapon ( like the machete more of a tool in some regards ), but the machete is still the longer heavier blade. This is about the same as a dagger vs a short sword. This up close you want the blade that keeps you further away from your enemy. EDGE: Carnagie

Side note, factoring in The Governors ability to use his bowie knife. The edge would go to him, but weapons vs weapon favors the machete.

Pistol 1

Hi-Power vs Beretta 92SB

I need to start by mentioning that I think the Governors SB was full sized. Not compact so its magazine capacity is the same as the 92FS ( 15+1 ). So yes it takes capacity and beats out the Hi-Power in a few other places on paper. That said the SB is the weapon the U.S Military improved on to create the M9 ( 92FS ) a weapon that has met with consistently less then favorable reviews when in come to its reliability/durability in the field. The Hi-Power likes it older sibling the M1911 has always been and continues to be regarded as one of the most reliable pistols. While reliablility is always important in a combat weapon, its even more important when the combatents weilding them amount to little more then half trained militia. EDGE: Carnagie

Pistol 2

Beretta 92FS vs Colt Mk IV Series 70

This may appear to be the classic M1911 vs M9 debate that has raged for years, but its not. That debate comes  down to power and reliability vs accuracy and capacity. This one doesn't, in this case, this model of Colt was designed to make the weapon more accurate. Which it may have, the side effect though was that it was rather unreliable and in a matter of a couple of years the government switched back to the old style 1911's. So in this case the only thing the Colt has going for it is stopping power and its not enough. EDGE: Carnagie

Shotgun

Mossberg 500 vs UTS-15

Yes the UTS is newer, and yes it holds nearly twice the rounds. That said bullpups are more complicated by nature, with more moving parts and more moving parts means more parts that can break. The UTS is no exception, infact the first generation of them could barely fire couple of rounds with out jamming and again like almost all bullpups it suffers from trigger issues. So once again I'm backing the more reliable weapon over the newer one. EDGE: Carnagie

Rifle 1

AK-47 vs Steyr AUG

Minus the specific UTAS issue of jamming. See above and add that the AK chambers the more powerfull round. So nobody mentions it, I know the Steyr is more accurate and has better max range. Still the AK's range is more then sufficient for this kind of combat. SO again I'm backing power and reliability over new and complicated. EDGE: Carnagie

Rifle 2

FN FAL vs M14

The M14 has the better range and arguable accuracy on semi-auto. Which has served it descendents well as a sniper and DMR system, but in this kind of fire fight where things could get up close and full auto may prove usefull the M14's weight, length, and recoil issues are going to put it at a disadvantage compared to the FAL. EDGE: Carnagie

Explosive

Type 69 RPG vs AT4

The AT4 provides the bigger boom, but only once. The RPG can be used multiple times. EDGE: Carnagie

Special

Gatling Gun vs Browning M2HB

We all know how this is going to go, but I feel like clearing some things up. First off while the Browning can be fired by a single user. It is generaly a crew served weapon, with the non-gunner acting as loader/feeder. With out this second person the gunner has to move out of position and take more time to reload. In other words both groups are better off putting 2 men on their machine gun. Also the reload on the gatling is likely faster, not that it matters much as it feeds from something like 40 round mags vs the Brownings hundreds of rounds per ammo belt. The Gatling gun is also lighter and Carnagie's was mounted on a tripod ( though it may have been bolted to it's vehicle ) meaning it is going to be more mobile then they Ma Duece which is stuck in the vehicle. Which leads us to the other advantage to Gatling gun may have, in this case Carnagie's was mounted in the back of an armored car, which means the gunners are better the those on the Browning who popped out of the top of a humvee are exposed. On the other hand the Browning crew can shoot easier on the move. Yeah no matter how you cut it. EDGE: The Governor

General weapons notes.

So the weapons edges seem to favor Carnagie on the other hand the M2HB is some thing of a force multiplier in favor of the Governor and if his explosive wasn't a fire and forgot weapon. It'd darn near seal the deal for the Governor, but long after the AT4 is spent Carnagie's men can be using the RPG, to counter many of the advantages the Governor's machine gun wouls other wise have.

So while its closer then it appears by pure numbers. I'm still gonna give Carnagie the edge in weapons.

The Leaders

As others have pointed out Carnagie, did very little in terms of direct combat perferin to stand back at let his men do the dirty work. The Governor on the other hand more or less proved himself to be the toughest of his cadre. So in a one on one fight. The Governor'd have this in the bag, but this is a squad on squad battle.

So we ought to discuss them as leaders/tacticians. It's been pointed out and its true that Governor seems far better at gaining the trust and respect of those he leads. He has the kind of charisma people are drawn to. Even Martinez who knew what he was capable of ended up trusting him to some extent again. On the other hand Carnagie has managed to wrestle control of a town full of hardened people and has maintained that power for a number of years. Whether it was through unseen combat prowess or sheer force of will is largely unknown, but we do see glimpses of his ability to talk down/inspire Redridge to his cause. Though he tends to do it through telling the truth where as the Governor does it through manipulation and deception. A skill that can be usefull on the battle, but come back to bite you in the ass with your own people, like how the Governor got shot by one of his own followers.

On the battlefield as tacticians in questionable how much both of them were involved in the planning and execution of operations. As both of them had underlings better suited for that sort of thing. Carnagie had Redridge and at different times the Governor had Merle, Martinez, and Mitch. All of whitch I believe had previous military or combat experience. If we assume they were part of the planning then the two actual had on battles we see the Governor engage in were a route and at best a phyric victory, but honestly a loss ( for him and Rick ). Carnagie on the other hand did manage to accomplish his goal. Though some may question whether this was because Eli let him.

As for the men under their command. The Governor's at best have a couple of years of experience in combat and weren't raised in this kind of dog eat dog world. They are still trying to get over the niceties of civilization to do what they need to do. Its important to remember that combat against walkers is different then combat against people both in the praticalities of battle and phsychologically. Carnagie's men on the other hand are ruitinely in combat against other humans be they simple travelers or cannibal road gangs. Even life in their town is reletively lawless, with disputes settled by force. So in the end this is a random group of surviviors vs a battle hardened militia.

DEADLIEST WARRIOR: Carnagie

Note this is only because this is a squad on squad match if it was one on one the Governor would take it. As it is though Carnagie's men are generally better armed and more experienced.